Originally Posted by Lakotababii
So just out of curiosity, how would you go about it? If you aren't going to confront them, or use "violence," then how do you stop the behavior?
Very basically, I focus on making sure the 'wrong' behaviour doesn't work & is difficult and the 'right' behaviour does work. Making 'bad manners' pointless & often unpleasant to the horse & rewarding alternate 'good' behaviour.
Originally Posted by Cherie
I do not care if a horse is in pain, has a broken leg or needs 100 stitches. If I am handling him, he is NOT allowed too be 'mouthy' or disrespectful. I want his complete and total respect
*Firstly let me say that I agree with the rest of your post(OK, except the very last bit), agree with others of yours I've read generally & am not at all trying to advocate allowing or putting up with 'bad' behaviour. As previously stated, I also agree punishment is sometimes warranted. From reading your other posts, I think it's probably more about differences of perception than anything else. And I *respectfully* also appreciate that we have different *opinions*, that doesn't in the least mean I view it as I'm right & you're wrong. Not trying to argue, just give my perceptions.
But what your above statement feels like to me is that you want a machine, not a living, sentient animal, with different perceptions and ways of communicating to you. Feels like a similar sort of attitude to saying a child should never show any 'disrespect' to an adult, even if they're being molested. Feels like you have no respect or empathy for the horse, especially if he's behaving like a horse.
Sure, natural horse behaviour is often unacceptable & sometimes downright dangerous to humans, so it's absolutely our responsibility to get it under control. Sure, as my horse's charge, there are absolutely things I need him to do or avoid doing, regardless of his feelings & natural inclinations, but I don't think judging everything regardless of reason as 'disrespect' and therefore deserving of our ire & punishment is the right response.
Manners are manners. Respect is respect. If a horse is mad, injured or in pain, he should still have good manners.
Should's a great word
. Manners may be manners, but different people expect different ones to others. I personally prefer my horses to show me how they're feeling, rather than suppress it, but at the same time I do ask them to put up with discomfort, etc when necessary.
...And about perceptions, herein is one term that really grates on me. I don't believe 'respect is respect' in the least, as it is an even more ambiguous term that means quite different things to different people. Eg. Many seem to see it purely as obedience or subservience, regardless of situation. Many see instilling fear of punishment & consequences, or 'dominating' the horse as THE road to respect. I personally see 'respect' as an incredibly desireable thing to have with a horse, but in quite a different way.
To me, developing trust, understanding & empathy with the person(whatever species) are vital precursors to developing respect. You can't even begin to develop it until you have those. I see it as a 'two way street' - I think you need to be respectFUL to others if you are aiming for getting theirs. It does not come out of fear or force - you can't make someone respect you, you can only *earn* it. Anyway, that's my perception & opinion, which I don't in the least expect others to drop everything & go along with, but I just hope to provide people with food for thought & alternative ways of seeing/dealing with stuff.