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Agressive 4 yr old

This is a discussion on Agressive 4 yr old within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        03-09-2013, 09:52 AM
      #21
    Foal
    I would look around for a more experienced horse person or trainer to help you...that way they can personally see what is going on and show you how to put a quick end to any unwanted behavior. Personally, I rarely ask for training advice on forums such as this - people who don't know you, your horse or your experience are quick to judge and can be pretty harsh.
         
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        03-09-2013, 01:05 PM
      #22
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by prairiewindlady    
    I would look around for a more experienced horse person or trainer to help you...that way they can personally see what is going on and show you how to put a quick end to any unwanted behavior. Personally, I rarely ask for training advice on forums such as this - people who don't know you, your horse or your experience are quick to judge and can be pretty harsh.
    No one has been mean or harsh that I've seen on this thread. They've been just honest with him/her. The truth in this situation is this person is in danger and over their head period, that isn't harsh that's just good advice. When someone is in danger you don't candy coat it and shoot butterflies and rainbows up thier bum. If you think the honest truth is harsh and can't take it then you shouldn't be training horses. I've been told the honest blunt truth and given corrections sure to some it might of sounded harsh but I love constructive critisism it helped me become a better trainer. But I have a feeling though that the OP didn't get what they wanted, "butterflies and rainbows", and so I'm curious to see if the OP will come back, which I hope he/she does, but haven't seen the OP since yesterday. OP please know almost every comment I've seen though blunt is out of genuine concern for your safety.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Palomine likes this.
         
        03-09-2013, 01:35 PM
      #23
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by prairiewindlady    
    I would look around for a more experienced horse person or trainer to help you...that way they can personally see what is going on and show you how to put a quick end to any unwanted behavior. Personally, I rarely ask for training advice on forums such as this - people who don't know you, your horse or your experience are quick to judge and can be pretty harsh.
    It's you who is quick to judge. This forum is a wonderful place for advise on many subjects, including this one. No one has been harsh, just blunt. This isn't the type of situation that calls for "sugar coating".
         
        03-09-2013, 02:13 PM
      #24
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Laffeetaffee    
    If it were me, I'd throw him in a group of other more mature horses for a while so they can beat the snot out of him. You can't win this fight with him, he's bigger than you. A few grouchy mares would definitely teach him some respect.
    Respect lessons by mares will not transfer over to respect for humans, and may in this instance actually make horse worse.

    Anyone that works with horses and herd dynamics, will tell you that when new horses are introduced into herd, it is the ones at bottom two spots that will fight the hardest as they don't want any more bosses. That will translate in turn to a horse like this deciding to keep from having another boss when humans begin to work with it.

    For that matter same with any animal/creature.

    As for PWL thoughts about harsh judgement. I usually tend to err on side of caution when giving advice, as well as make comments about other's advice, simply because I do know what can happen, if for instance you tell someone to hard tie horse and leave it, never thinking that the person may tie to sapling, rail fence, portable round pen, or even cellar door.

    You also have to take in to account the "amount of fight in the dog" as it were. Not dog fighting per se of course, but the attitude that handler has, and how easily they will back down if horse decides to step it up.

    Much damage is done when someone "sets a battle" without having the fortitude to carry through to the other side. The slappy slappy that so many resort to with nippy/biting horse for instance. Does nothing to correct or stop, and actually makes horse worse. We see it all the time.

    But nothing harsh was said to this poster. Just truths, that hopefully will be taken and used, before they end up in ER, or grave.
    loosie, smrobs, Cherie and 2 others like this.
         
        03-10-2013, 05:25 AM
      #25
    Trained
    ***8**
         
        03-10-2013, 05:26 AM
      #26
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LouieThePalomino    
    Time to get out the ole shovel handle to knock some sense into him
    Posted via Mobile Device
    You mean 'her' don't you?? 'Him' is the horse!
         
        03-10-2013, 06:09 AM
      #27
    Trained
    ^Hmpf! Computer problems again!

    It does appear that you've been soundly 'told' & I understand you may be feeling 'set upon' from the responses. It's also possible we have the wrong idea about what's going on, so I agree with Prarie's sentiments about forum advice & such.

    So saying, this sounds like very dangerous behaviour & you can't afford to mess about with it. This sort of thing can be deadly dangerous & may not afford any second chances!

    It is also very likely that whatever you have been doing has inadvertently taught him to do this. Eg. Your 'join up' may have given him the message that he is the dominant party, or that he needs to get in first to stop you hassling him in circles again. Perhaps he was just trying to teach you some 'respect' or 'manners'.

    Also agree that Cherie's comment about stalling & feeding is very valid. However, honestly I think this is 'by the by' in this particular case it's time to either sell the horse - to someone that's experienced with respectfully & effectively dealing with this behaviour, or to the meat market - unfortunately it's not fair on him or anyone else to just pass him onto just any 'experienced' home. Or find that very experienced someone to train him for you very well, *before then instructing you.

    ...Oh & I agree with your first response too Palomine, but I think the 'strong' corrections are best if not physically punishing. A lot of 'aggressive' horses become that way due to heavy handed handling. I recently saw a vid of Klaus Hempfling dealing with aggressive horses & this is the way I tend to handle them - not confrontational, but quietly persistent... tho I tend to start out on the other side of a wall/fence to start a *mutually* respectful relationship with some 'aggressive' horses I've met, rather than online in the open, like Klaus demonstrated!
         
        03-10-2013, 06:16 AM
      #28
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Palomine    
    someone to hard tie horse and leave it, never thinking that the person may tie to sapling, rail fence, portable round pen, or even cellar door.
    Shudder! The amount of idiotic & dangerous things people tie horses to... I usually check this when I arrive at a new client. But an existing, experienced horseperson got under the radar recently - she'd tied the horse to a piece of baler's twine, tied to a rail. Unfortunately old, rotten fence that it was, the horse pulled back & the baler's twine didn't break - she suddenly found she was being chased by a 4m plank, with wire attached!! Her foal, owner & I somehow managed to play 'jump rope' with the wire as she ran past & we all somehow remained unharmed!
         
        03-10-2013, 10:21 AM
      #29
    Super Moderator
    Some 40+ years ago where I was working there was a neighbouring family whose daughter, 11 years old, had a pony that was way to much for her. I did help her where I could but it was a difficult situation.
    I never really spoke out about this assuming that the parents knew (mother was supposedly very horsey)
    A couple of months later the child was killed by the pony.
    This has always stayed with me and I would rather be blunt and harsh than to hear of a similar situation.
    loosie, smrobs and waresbear like this.
         
        03-10-2013, 11:00 AM
      #30
    Weanling
    "This has always stayed with me and I would rather be blunt and harsh than to hear of a similar situation."

    Agreed!

    And, with the limited knowledge anyone has of the situation, and without know the horse personally there's just no real way to give good advice. Some horses need an aggressive approach, some can be made way worse- even 2 horses that appear to being doing the same thing and have the same problem may need 2 completely different approaches and 2 different answers to the problem, and the problem that turned horribly worse by switching them around.

    There is never, ever one method, never one fail safe answer to any problem with horses. They are animals, they have a mind of their own. They think differently from each other, and us. And, they are incredibly unpredictable.

    I am all good with getting advice from a forum like this if faced with a challenge. Everyone has different ways they would approach things, it's up to the trainer/owner to evaluate those ideas and use what they think would work best, dependent on the horse and situation (as they are the only ones that know the real problem and mindset of the horse)

    But, when someone says that fixing the problem is the "easy part" and just leading them is the difficult one, that sends up huge red flags that this person is not ready to handle this. They need to enlist the help of someone with more experience with this, to assist in addressing the root cause and correcting the issue and teach them how to handle the horse at minimum.

    May not be what they want to hear, but there's no shame in it. You live, you learn. I don't think anyone is attacking the OP, but from evidence provided, they ARE in over their head and need further assistance from a more experienced person (outside of an online forum). I do believe we all have given the best advice given the situation.
    loosie and Foxhunter like this.
         

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