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agressive mare...please help!-long-

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        09-09-2009, 04:49 PM
      #11
    Yearling
    I can't get over the herd talk. In my eyes, she's not part of a herd, and neither are you. This is like the dog training with the "alpha" stuff. To me its just rediculous. Personally the thing that's lacking the most is a bond and that's how I feel. I bonded with my nasty mare(many of them actually) and in turn they respect and love me in return. They can rely on me and they know this.

    And as far as giving treats, how is that a bribe? I can't walk by my mares stall and toss her a treat everytime I feel like it? It makes her happy to see me. No she doesnt get one everytime, but she knows me= good things. Sure she gets a scolding when she's nasty to other people, but I can't really change that because they wont work with her, they just assume she's a lost hope, and treat her as so.
         
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        09-09-2009, 06:14 PM
      #12
    Started
    ^^ The Parelli method hasn't been applied correctly in that situation. There is hope for this horse, she doesn't need to be given up on.
         
        09-09-2009, 07:52 PM
      #13
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spirithorse    
    ^^ The Parelli method hasn't been applied correctly in that situation. There is hope for this horse, she doesn't need to be given up on.
    are you speaking of my mare or the OPs mare?
         
        09-09-2009, 09:02 PM
      #14
    Foal
    It seen like you don't have your horses respect. You have to get her respect and at the same time show her you are the dominate person in the relationship. Simple things like if you are leading her and she is right on your hills take the end of your lead line and pop her a little in the chest to let her know that's to close and you need your space. Simple things like that I think will improve her attitude. Just accert yourself. You don't have to be mean to her but you can't baby her or she will walk over you.
         
        09-10-2009, 08:25 PM
      #15
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlmagroN    
    are you speaking of my mare or the OPs mare?
    I was talking about MissB's post.
         
        09-10-2009, 10:19 PM
      #16
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlmagroN    
    i can't get over the herd talk. In my eyes, she's not part of a herd, and neither are you. This is like the dog training with the "alpha" stuff. To me its just rediculous.
    Interesting for you to say this, considering all the research that's ever been done on animals like horses and dogs....it all says the same...there's the pack leader and there's the horse herd leader. There has to be for the good of the herd and the pack.

    When a horse is with another horse, they can figure themselves out. One is dominant and the other is submissive. Watch horses. You'll see the pecking order happen naturally.

    When a human steps in, you can bond all you want, but a horse doesn't think of you as "my pal Sally"...he or she thinks of you as ... are you dominant or are you submissive? Dominant in that you set up the rules (you won't turn your butt to me, I move your feet, I can get in your space anytime I want to but you're not allowed to get into mine unless asked..i.e. Run over the top of me, push me around, kick me, etc...)

    I believe that a real bond has the human as the "leader" and the horse as the follower, this way the horse feels confidence in you, and in what you're asking. If you're nervous, scared easily, back off or back down or don't follow through....the horse can call your bluff and take over the roll.....and that's where the trouble starts.

    Quote:
    personally the thing that's lacking the most is a bond and that's how I feel. I bonded with my nasty mare(many of them actually) and in turn they respect and love me in return. They can rely on me and they know this.
    I'm curious,....how is it that you bond if you're not putting yourself in a leadership roll? What do you do?
    If you let your horse know what is expected of her (she's not to do unwanted behaviors and when she responds in a good way you reward her with a release of pressure...this is what a lead horse does, too)

    I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm seriously curious as to what your definition of "bond" is compared to my definition of "leader and follower" because I suspect we're talking about the same things, only putting different "labels" on em.

    Quote:
    and as far as giving treats, how is that a bribe? I can't walk by my mares stall and toss her a treat everytime I feel like it? It makes her happy to see me. No she doesnt get one everytime, but she knows me= good things.
    I used to think that treats were a bad thing, but I agree with you here. If given correctly so as not to cause mugging, treats can be a good addition to training.
    There's clicker trainers who use nothing but treats and turn out good horses like Allan Pogue.
         
        09-10-2009, 10:54 PM
      #17
    Foal
    I have to agree with dashygirl. Your mare needs lots of ground work and positive reinforcement. Try working on things that are easy for her first and make sure you have lots of treats. Then begin to ask for new things on step at a time. If you ask her to move away from you and she takes a step with one hoof, reward her. You may need a trainer for help. I had a mare like this. It took a good 3 months of hard every day work but she is now sweet as pie. Dashygirl is right it could be a combination of all the things she mentioned. Take your time with her and be patient I am sure it will work out if you keep at it. Do a lot of grooming all the time. It really helps bond and lets her find where she belongs in the pecking order.
         
        09-11-2009, 08:16 AM
      #18
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Calamity Jane    
    Interesting for you to say this, considering all the research that's ever been done on animals like horses and dogs....it all says the same...there's the pack leader and there's the horse herd leader. There has to be for the good of the herd and the pack.

    When a horse is with another horse, they can figure themselves out. One is dominant and the other is submissive. Watch horses. You'll see the pecking order happen naturally.

    When a human steps in, you can bond all you want, but a horse doesn't think of you as "my pal Sally"...he or she thinks of you as ... are you dominant or are you submissive? Dominant in that you set up the rules (you won't turn your butt to me, I move your feet, I can get in your space anytime I want to but you're not allowed to get into mine unless asked..i.e. Run over the top of me, push me around, kick me, etc...)
    i trained dogs for a while (eventally went back to racing horses because I missed it) I've seen many dogs ruined by the "alpha" and "pack" mindset. Dogs are dogs, you are a person, they know this just as well as you do. I feel the same with horses. If that's your way of thinking, that's fine, whatever, everyone can train their own way. Im just saying, I don't agree with it. I also feel for most people they take the "dominance" thing wayyyy too far.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Calamity Jane    
    I believe that a real bond has the human as the "leader" and the horse as the follower, this way the horse feels confidence in you, and in what you're asking. If you're nervous, scared easily, back off or back down or don't follow through....the horse can call your bluff and take over the roll.....and that's where the trouble starts.

    I'm curious,....how is it that you bond if you're not putting yourself in a leadership roll? What do you do?
    If you let your horse know what is expected of her (she's not to do unwanted behaviors and when she responds in a good way you reward her with a release of pressure...this is what a lead horse does, too)

    I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm seriously curious as to what your definition of "bond" is compared to my definition of "leader and follower" because I suspect we're talking about the same things, only putting different "labels" on em.
    i don't see it so much as leader and follower. I see it as trust for the most part. Im not going to hurt them, im not going to put them in harms way, I will protect them, etc. my horses know they can rely on me and are completely comfortable around me. Heres an example:
    My mare, Praire Debutante (shes been coming up in a lot of my posts lately, she's just an example of so many things) I can go get her in her stall with no problem, harness her with no problem, I kiss on her all the time. When it comes to putting her away at the end of the day, I can brush her, paint her legs and wrap her fine. She never moves, just stands and waits.
    Now on the other hand:
    I work with my cousin and his son. (my uncle too when he's not on vacation *eyeroll*) they go to get her in her stall, she turns her back, they harness her, she kicks and bites at them, they try to paint her legs and wrap them, she runs back and forth in the crossties dances around picks up her feet and she has occationally kicked at them. And she also pins her ears flat against her head when anyone else comes near her, she recently bit my uncle in the back (i wasnt there though)

    I have boneded with her. I spent a huge amount of time with her and she trusts me and I trust her. I never have these problems with her and all I did was spend time, love on her, occationally correct her mistakes, etc. I guess if you want to call that being a leader, ok, but I don't.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Calamity Jane    
    I used to think that treats were a bad thing, but I agree with you here. If given correctly so as not to cause mugging, treats can be a good addition to training.
    There's clicker trainers who use nothing but treats and turn out good horses like Allan Pogue.
    exactly
         
        09-11-2009, 05:53 PM
      #19
    Weanling
    Almagron, wow all I can say is that I hope a child never enters or is around that horse. Its a good thing horses don't get put down as easily as a dog for harming someone.
         
        09-11-2009, 09:49 PM
      #20
    Started
    ^^ Oh it happens very easily. My horse was going to be put down because of his aggressive behavior toward people. He was biting and kicking people, charging in his stall and rearing under saddle. Luckily I found him just in time before he was put down. Needless to say he doesn't do any of that stuff anymore.
         

    Tags
    aggression, filly, mare, pinning ears, training advice

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