Agressive Stallion REFUSED to lay down *LONG* - Page 15 - The Horse Forum

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post #141 of 153 Old 03-27-2013, 11:00 AM
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Loosie-I appreciate that you're not into competition. I really do get that. And I also respect your diplomatic approach to discussing these subjects. Always see both sides.

Things may be different in Australia. But here the NH clinicians can't keep from making cute comments about traditional training. They make it seem like some horrible cruel torture system. In truth, the good hands I know (and I try to do the same), use very easy to understand pressure and release techniques and are just as easy with a horse as the NH people.

So that's why I would like to see these clinicians put their money where their mouth is and enter up in the event of their choice. Reining, cutting, reined cowhorse. Show those guys how its done. Most wont, too much on the line and they wouldn't be able to preach to their followers how much better they are if they get beat.

As far as the shoeing comment, I never "preach shoes as the be-all and discount every conceivable con". I've even said some of mine are barefoot. (Right now only one is shod) I've also said that roughly half my work was shoeing, the other half trimming. So if that was aimed at me, you might be twisting things a little
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post #142 of 153 Old 03-27-2013, 11:11 AM
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Equine Clicker Trainer Shawna Karrasch has 4739 friends on facebook.�
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post #143 of 153 Old 03-27-2013, 11:17 AM
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OP, how is the stallion's training progressing?
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post #144 of 153 Old 03-27-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian View Post
So that's why I would like to see these clinicians put their money where their mouth is and enter up in the event of their choice. Reining, cutting, reined cowhorse. Show those guys how its done. Most wont, too much on the line and they wouldn't be able to preach to their followers how much better they are if they get beat.

As far as the shoeing comment, I never "preach shoes as the be-all and discount every conceivable con". I've even said some of mine are barefoot. (Right now only one is shod) I've also said that roughly half my work was shoeing, the other half trimming. So if that was aimed at me, you might be twisting things a little
To the first para, yes! Bring it on, I say! Not just 'naturals' either that I reckon should put their money where their mouth is. A few years ago they did a 'way of the horse' comp at Equitana here, generally a 'natural' event, but one 'normal' trainer decided to have a go - failed dismally! Later in the day when the others were riding their horses, he still hadn't managed to catch his!

Second para, no, not at all meaning to say you come across like that at all, just using it as an eg. I really respect the way you seem to be quite objective about that subject & it surprised me your last post here sounded rather... spikey! But perhaps we both hit eachother's nerve, by the sound of things
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post #145 of 153 Old 03-27-2013, 06:47 PM
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To the first para, yes! Bring it on, I say! Not just 'naturals' either that I reckon should put their money where their mouth is. A few years ago they did a 'way of the horse' comp at Equitana here, generally a 'natural' event, but one 'normal' trainer decided to have a go - failed dismally! Later in the day when the others were riding their horses, he still hadn't managed to catch his!
We're too far apart in our ideas of legit trainers ma'am. Later in the day he was still trying to catch his horse? Really? In a roundpen I guess? This wasn't a trainer then, it was a kid or some chingchong. I will say this, in the states a normal trainer is wasting their time going to one of these colt petting contests. Because the second you use a technique that isn't in the NH handbook, they'll boo you out of the building. Its a house full of nh people.

All the pros I've ever known would make pretty quick work of catching a wild one in a little round corral. Mostly because they broke a lot of colts before they learned how to train.
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post #146 of 153 Old 03-27-2013, 11:15 PM
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We're too far apart in our ideas of legit trainers ma'am. Later in the day he was still trying to catch his horse? Really? In a roundpen I guess? This wasn't a trainer then, it was a kid or some chingchong.
Well... I don't know what a chingchong is, but sounds like a good lable for the guy IMO! Wasn't at all saying I thought him a good trainer(in the least!) but he is an experienced professional one. He's actually a 'performance horse' trainer, from a training establishment that has a pretty good rep.... Albeit he wasn't the founder of the establishment & it's rep does seem to be going downhill somewhat in recent years.... & they've turned out some 'push button' but stressy, 'uncatchable' horses.... Won't name names or mention relationships because that may give names away, but the term 'coat tails' might give you an idea why he's got the rep but obviously(unless he was having a real bad day) not the skill.

Last edited by loosie; 03-27-2013 at 11:18 PM.
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post #147 of 153 Old 03-28-2013, 04:22 AM
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Sorry but if the trainer couldnt catch a colt in a round pen then it wasnt a decent trainer.
Heck Any decent trainer worth thier salt round here would have a completly wild pony, broken, kid safe and in the county show ring within 6 weeks here. It would be caught within 5 mins and headcollar on shortly there after.
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post #148 of 153 Old 03-28-2013, 07:38 AM
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That sounds like one of those horses you cannot beat with tricks or methods - with such a strong animal there is only one way and that is REAL leadership - based on authentic natural authority, and that can never be achieved through any horsey trainer education but only by very serious personal development. And such a horse will rather die than letting himself humiliate so much to lie down in front of a human being who he does not deeply respect. And you can't beat it into them either (hope no one thinks about that as an option!). Poor lad - sounds like there probably aint much hope for him in the world he was born into :( - if he finally ends up giving in he will just be a mountain of functioning flesh, and if he doesn't I guess he will be at the end of his road... but perhaps better physically dead than mentally killed.

Last edited by dknatura; 03-28-2013 at 07:45 AM.
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post #149 of 153 Old 03-28-2013, 08:25 AM
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DKnatura, unfortunatly you are anthromorphising horses and show how little you actualy understand of how the equine brain works.

Horses do not understand the concept of humiliation and thier concept of respect is different.

Horses will not volentarily lie down infront of a person unless they feel safe that is very different from respect. On the floor they are at thier most vulnerable to predators and they cannot get up quickly, hence most horses will not stay lieing down when a person who they do not feel safe with is around.

Lieing a horse down will not turn him into a robot, it will teach him that even at his most vulnerable humans will not hurt him and it is safe to put his trust in this person. Once they trust humans again then respect for the leader of the herd (i.e the Human) will follow very quickly.
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post #150 of 153 Old 03-28-2013, 11:19 PM
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So any update? Nothing?
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