always giving him trouble - how far can I go?
   

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always giving him trouble - how far can I go?

This is a discussion on always giving him trouble - how far can I go? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        04-24-2011, 10:05 PM
      #1
    Foal
    Exclamation always giving him trouble - how far can I go?

    Have an older horse who I seem to be smacking more than ever. Nothing else works, and even if he gets a few sharp snaps of the lead rope, or smacks on the chest he just keeps pushing... or will move off it for a while, the drag his feet (in the back up for example). Or sometimes he'll stop when I do, and sometimes he wont. For that I'm very consistent and give him a sharp smack on the chest every time he keeps walking after I saw whoa and stop - he doesn't get it all the time???? He's not stupid, and not being crazy, he's just invasive and doesn't have a "get off right away" attitude.

    If I wanted him to listen 100% of the time I'd have to beat him up quite a bit in the beginning and not back off when I think I'm getting way to aggressive and he's getting worse.

    How firm is too firm? And I mean I have to get pretty tough and he still wont listen, or will slow down.
         
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        04-24-2011, 10:11 PM
      #2
    Foal
    Id go back to basics with him.. Round pen to work on some respect then spend some time working off pressure. In training, punishment must be effective after 1-2 tries, otherwise it becomes nagging, the horse becomes desensitized to it, you have to escalate to get desired response, and it's a big circle of that until the horse becomes dangerous or the punishment becomes abusive.
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        04-24-2011, 10:24 PM
      #3
    Banned
    Definitely agree, round pen him.

    Your horse isn't giving to pressure. First teach him to give to pressure in a rope halter. Stand by the shoulder and take up on the lead just enough to put a tad of pressure on the nose to get him to turn his head an inch. If he doesn't "give" with the light pressure after a few seconds, increase the pressure and hold. Never release the pressure until he gives then release it totally, throw the lead at him and praise. Once he will give his head to you an inch, try for two, then three and on and on until he can touch his shoulder. Do both sides. Now the horse knows how to give to pressure and you can easily teach "back" because he knows that when he feels pressure he is to move AWAY from it. Pressure on both sides of his nose will mean, back up. Do it the same as for each side. Hold the pressure on, lightly at first (because you want him to respond, in the end, to the light pressure) and only increase when he doesn't respond in a few seconds.
         
        04-25-2011, 10:30 AM
      #4
    Super Moderator
    It does not take a round pen. It just takes 'effective' and consistent training from his handler.

    You are doing what trainers call 'pecking' on him. You are slapping and scolding him when he needs effective interaction.

    If you have to scold a horse more than 2 times for the same thing, you are not doing it right. Get after him hard and then leave him alone.

    You have to be 100% consistent. The worst behavior that you accept (or encourage) is the best behavior that you have any right to expect. Don't hand feed, don't think it is cute for him to look for treats, don't 'play' with him. If you want a pet, get a dog. Expect a professional relationship of complete respect from your horse, treat him with respect and expect him to respect your space at ALL times and he will behave with consistency and respect.

    The more you slap and peck on a horse, the more disrespectful he will become. Nothing you are doing is a deterrent, so it just becomes a game to him. They eventually will get very ill-tempered from this constant bickering and pecking.

    You and he have a relationship like two young studs or geldings have in a herd. They play and fight and pick on each other until eventually they establish who is the head pecker in their pecking order of two. What you need a relationship where you are the undisputed herd leader and every horse is in awe and has total respect for you.
         

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