Anti-Panic training - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 26 Old 11-11-2012, 09:10 PM
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we let ours drag a rope around while being monitored and even my app who panics very quickly and thrashes around learned after three time of stepping on it all he had to do was back up. we teach our horses to hobble on both the front and back feet. this saved our butt big time when my hubbies horse got stuck in a down fence on the trail we couldn't see. he got his back right foot stuck in about six strands of barbed wire and just stood there till we cut him free. they do need to learn not to panick on therethere own if a human isn't around.
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post #12 of 26 Old 11-12-2012, 04:18 AM
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I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree that it's too dangerous. The horse has to "get stuck" before you can teach it not to panic. I'd rather my horse "get stuck" and panic when I'm right there to monitor than just letting them figure it out on there own in the pasture. I'm also not sure how teaching them to step back off the lead rope is any different than letting a horse drag a lead rope around when you're right there. o_O
Obviously things in the USA are very different and our Health & Safety Laws in the UK are extremely strict. You would never get a horse trainer or riding instructor telling anyone to allow the horse to drag a lead rope around to train him not to panic if he steps on the lead rope. It really is dangerous practice. We are taught from the first time we get near a horse to tie up reins when not in use and if you are leaving a horse with a head collar and lead rope, then you tie it up. There is something called 'ground tying' which we train horses to do in an emergency situation where the lead rope is on the ground and the horse doesn't move because he is ground tied. BUT, when teaching this method, the horse is never left alone and under no circumstances is he allowed to drag the rope around. He is taught to 'stand' and not move but this is only used in an absolute emergency and for a very short time. Each to their own I suppose but if you ever visit the UK to go horse riding, don't ever allow a horse to drag a lead rope around. It really is a very big NO NO. You'll be in for a strong telling off from the majority of horsey people (even those who ride western) and believe me, I have had a few tellings off. LOL. Things seem a lot more lenient in the USA.
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post #13 of 26 Old 11-12-2012, 04:36 AM
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we let ours drag a rope around while being monitored and even my app who panics very quickly and thrashes around learned after three time of stepping on it all he had to do was back up. we teach our horses to hobble on both the front and back feet. this saved our butt big time when my hubbies horse got stuck in a down fence on the trail we couldn't see. he got his back right foot stuck in about six strands of barbed wire and just stood there till we cut him free. they do need to learn not to panick on therethere own if a human isn't around.
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Using a lead rope for 'anti panic training' is not the answer. I just have to disagree with this as I have personally witnessed a traumatic incident in a riding school where a pony stood on its lead rope, couldn't back up (which it had beent taught to do because of ground training) due to the position it was in, panicked, fell over awkwardly and ended up with a bad break above its front right knee. That creature writhed in agony until a vet arrived and had to put it to sleep. That will stay with me for the rest of my life. My horses are far too precious to allow them to drag a lead rope along the floor as a 'training aid' even when I am with them . For me it is about all round training. If any horse gets well and truly stuck, you will find that no amount of 'training' will stop it from panicking. However, if a horse trusts you, it will calm down and let you help it no matter what. In the incident with the lead rope, the pony was in severe pain due to the horrific injury. no amount of trust would have calmed him down at that point. It was so sad.
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post #14 of 26 Old 11-12-2012, 05:16 AM
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Horses can indeed get injured if they're left loose with a lead trailing. That is precisely the reason I believe you SHOULD *teach* horses to trail a rope & learn that it's OK to stand on it. There are a number of other things that can make the likelihood of injury minimal.

Agree with Saddlebags that I would first ensure the horse was good & solid about *yielding* to pressure on the halter, in whatever direction it came from. I also do some desensitising with ropes around their legs, so they're not going to panic when the rope bumps or brushes their legs. Agree with the person who said never use a rope halter, I use a flat halter and thick, soft rope. And for 'Justin' I do also tend to do the first session(s) in a safe, smallish area, such as an arena if possible and not leave the horse alone.
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post #15 of 26 Old 11-12-2012, 05:39 AM
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You would never get a horse trainer or riding instructor telling anyone to allow the horse to drag a lead rope around to train him not to panic if he steps on the lead rope. It really is dangerous practice.
I suspect you're wrong in your broad statement of all horse professionals & you're confusing your personal opinion with facts. As horses in any part of the world, regardless of 'Health & Safety laws', do tend to escape on occasion & accidents tend to happen, I personally think it's negligent not to teach a horse to deal with simple things such as this, and your one terrible example likely wouldn't have happened if someone had been more proactive about training. IMO it is an illustration of exactly why this sort of training should indeed be done.

MY horses are far too precious to neglect such training. It is about all round training, of which this is a small part. If any horse gets well and truly stuck, you will find that no amount of 'training' will *guarantee* it won't panic & hurt itself, but if done properly it WILL INDEED make it far less likely.
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post #16 of 26 Old 11-12-2012, 09:52 AM
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every horse at some point and time will step on its lead or has it needs to know not to panick. It isn't like you have to do it everyday once a month or anything once they figure it out they don't forget
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post #17 of 26 Old 11-12-2012, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
Horses can indeed get injured if they're left loose with a lead trailing. That is precisely the reason I believe you SHOULD *teach* horses to trail a rope & learn that it's OK to stand on it. There are a number of other things that can make the likelihood of injury minimal.

Agree with Saddlebags that I would first ensure the horse was good & solid about *yielding* to pressure on the halter, in whatever direction it came from. I also do some desensitising with ropes around their legs, so they're not going to panic when the rope bumps or brushes their legs. Agree with the person who said never use a rope halter, I use a flat halter and thick, soft rope. And for 'Justin' I do also tend to do the first session(s) in a safe, smallish area, such as an arena if possible and not leave the horse alone.
. Its a really dangerous practice! Health and Safety DOES come into it. I still won't do it with my horses and I don't personally know anyone I have been in contact with in the UK who does this either. The British Horse Society (BHS) who give credibility in the UK to horse management qualifications without which you cannot 'officially' work with horses, does not support this practice. It is 'informal' training and therefore what you wish to do with your own horses is up to you. Good luck.
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post #18 of 26 Old 11-12-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
. Its a really dangerous practice! Health and Safety DOES come into it. I still won't do it with my horses and I don't personally know anyone I have been in contact with in the UK who does this either. The British Horse Society (BHS) who give credibility in the UK to horse management qualifications without which you cannot 'officially' work with horses, does not support this practice. It is 'informal' training and therefore what you wish to do with your own horses is up to you. Good luck.
So what happens when your horse gets caught up in fencing in the pasture? Or some bramble/vines on the trail? You just *hope* you have enough trust with your animal so it doesn't flounce about while you try to rescue it? What about the fencing, where it has an hour or more of time alone to hurt itself trying to get free?

I am 95% confident that if Ricci gets caught up in a fence, she will wait for me to come get her because of her training. Just yesterday, I was riding Gracie in a field and she got her foot stuck in a long vine. Because of her training, she kept her head on and I was able to maneuver her out of it.

If you think your horses would do the same thing because you think it trusts you 100% you are sorely misguided. They are flight animals first. In the wild, they don't wait for the help of the trusted alpha mare, they try to get out. This is precisely why you must TRAIN THEM to handle it when they get stuck.

I agree 100% with Loosie. It is negligent on your part not to do this kind of training. Both my girls know how to ground tie as well. That teaches them to stand, it has nothing to do with training them not to panic. So please tell me, what would YOU do to train your horse not to panic? Don't tell me you wouldn't do it my way because its "unsafe," tell me what YOU WOULD DO.
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post #19 of 26 Old 11-12-2012, 10:25 AM
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Using a lead rope for 'anti panic training' is not the answer. I just have to disagree with this as I have personally witnessed a traumatic incident in a riding school where a pony stood on its lead rope, couldn't back up (which it had beent taught to do because of ground training) due to the position it was in, panicked, fell over awkwardly and ended up with a bad break above its front right knee. That creature writhed in agony until a vet arrived and had to put it to sleep. That will stay with me for the rest of my life. My horses are far too precious to allow them to drag a lead rope along the floor as a 'training aid' even when I am with them . For me it is about all round training. If any horse gets well and truly stuck, you will find that no amount of 'training' will stop it from panicking. However, if a horse trusts you, it will calm down and let you help it no matter what. In the incident with the lead rope, the pony was in severe pain due to the horrific injury. no amount of trust would have calmed him down at that point. It was so sad.
Your example here is EXACTLY why a horse should be taught to drag a lead rope.....I worked at the track for many years, and NONE of the horses were taught to drag the lead, and when they got away for their handlers (which was often!) the problem would escalate as the horse would spook at the lead rope trailing on the ground beside it and freak out........sometimes horses are babied far too much and they just become a danger to themselves and everyone around them......we have a boarder who refuses to tie her horse up, and he stands in the aisle ALL the time with a lead rope hanging down....so she taught him to drag the lead (which some people consider dangerous) but is too scared to tie him up in case he gets hurt....??????
Ps. The horse ties up fine!
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post #20 of 26 Old 11-12-2012, 10:44 AM
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I think that Bluebird must live in a different Uk to the one I left 5 years ago, Health & Safety Laws apply to humans and not to animals and in that respect are no stricter there than they are here and they dont apply to what you do in your own time on your own property.
You dont need a BHS certificate to legally work with horses unless you are going into a teaching situation. I know a lot of yards who wont employ people who have gone the BHS Equestrian college route because they are often girls who've never ridden a horse outside of a riding school situation and have no idea how to deal with a horse that doesnt play the right game.
I have always turned young and new horses out in a leather or break away headcollar with a short length of bailer twine attached to it, I've done this hundreds of times and never seen one accident, its actually a really effective way to train a horse not to panic in a situation where it feels 'caught up'. Its all about teaching a horse to relax and give to pressure
Horses will go out of their way to do stupid things but you cant wrap them in cotton wool and the most accidents I've seen over the years have been caused by people doing things with horses that they didnt have enough knowledge or experience to handle but thought they did
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