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Anxious and High Strung Appendix Gelding

8K views 44 replies 16 participants last post by  Yogiwick 
#1 ·
Hey yall-- its my first post/day on here. I don't know what this community is like, so hopefully you all are not the stuck up know-it-all kind of horse people that frequent the internet. :-|

PLEASE READ: Feel free to skip to the bottom of this post for the shortened version of my story. I am on a computer and can easily get carried away with typing out more than necessary.

ANYWAYS. Here's my issue:
I have owned a, now 11 y/o, 17.1hh Appendix gelding for about four years. He was a solid NBHA 2D barrel horse before I bought him. I did barrel racing with him for a little while, then I got tired of it. He was very gate sour and would go to the first barrel and then side-pass at a canter away from it and ruin the pattern. Since I wasn't enjoying it, and he wasn't either, I thought we might as well call it quits.

Fast forward a year, and we started jumpers. He is a FANTASTIC jumper (I'm really not meaning to brag). He's a natural and was clearing 3ft jumps in my first jumper lesson with him-- this is where know-it-all equestrians say "OMG. THATS SO CRUEL! WHY WOULD YOU ALLOW HIM TO JUMP THAT HIGH IN HIS FIRST LESSON!??! IGNORNANT FOOL!1!111"-- but it happened under the supervision and instruction of a trainer I trust. She wanted to see what potential he contained, and needless to say, he can go MUCH higher than 3ft. It is what it is, and I only mention this in my post to give you all an idea of what amount of skill my horse has. Please do not comment on the fact that a trainer had me jumping a green jumper over 3ft fences in my first lesson... it seems that that is the part of this story that everyone loves to rant about. I've heard it already, so just do me a favor and don't comment on that one instant. Thanks. :-|

Back to the issue: I did not take many lessons with the jumper trainer as lessons are a bit pricey, and I have my own barn to work with my horse at (I have been riding horses for over a decade, btw). He learned how to pace himself over jumps very well. But, he started charging fences. Actually, this even happened when I was taking lessons. He loves to run and over-jumping fences is another of his hobbies. I got him in a Slow Twist Pelham and he began listening to me and the over jumping wasn't so bad.
I haven't worked with him on jumping in a long while, as even riding him western around my pasture has turned into a fight. He is VERY high strung, and gets extremely anxious. It is just not enjoyable at all! I've been basically just walking and trotting him in the pasture for 3 years and he still acts like a nutcase.
I was riding him in the pasture the other day, and ended up having to resort to turning tight circles (which he loves to do- no sarcasm) and he would try to side-pass along his way while spinning in tight circles. He would walk, but it was extended and jerky (I do not allow him to break gait when I am riding, especially not when he's so irrationally hot).
I'd really hate to constantly dope him when I ride, but after three years of trying to cool him down, he has barely changed. I would love to get back to jumpers with him, maybe even do a bit of cross country, but believe me when I say that he is too hot for that. There is not much for me to do with him when he is so anxious and high strung. It's not safe for me, and not fair to him.


****Short version of my novel: My 11 y/o Appendix gelding is too hot/anxious/high-strung to do anything with anymore. I've spent 3 years doing low stress activities with him, but he is still a special piece of crazy. He's a darling on the ground-- a complete ham. But I need help figuring out how to calm down my horse so that riding him is enjoyable (and safe) again. I'd hate to start doping him, but I'm at my Wit's End with him.

And by the way, his name is Alexander. I'm not sure why I typed out that whole thing using 'he' the whole time. :lol:
 
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#2 ·
Hope you don't mind my asking a few questions here....

1) what is he being fed - how much/how often?

2) where is he kept - in a stall? in a pasture?

3) is he your only horse, or does he have a companion?

Going to re-read the OP post, before I give any thoughts.
 
#3 ·
1.) He eats about 2 handfulls of sweetfeed twice a day-- mostly to give him his powdered vitamins, and probiotics. Vet has 'OK'ed the diet.

2.) He is on full turn out, except for when he comes in to eat his grain in his stall. I usually leave him in for about 2hrs after they eat as they all enjoy getting out of the sun and away from the flies.

3.) He shares a 8-10 acre pasture with my three other horses. The horse mentioned in the post, Alexander, is the dominant of the herd.

**I don't mind the questions. Please feel free to ask away!
 
#4 ·
Most "hot" horses I have had to deal with were brought along too quickly at some point and were given repetition without learning the basics. This most frequently happens with smart athletic horses because it seems to come so easy to them.

Charging or rushing fences is almost always this scenario and so it is all I will speak to.

After the 3 foot test with the trainer, how did you bring the horse back to basics? Jumping is started at a trot (no matter the physical talent of the horse). Usually it is started with caveletti with a cross rail at the end. Eventually you put a stride between the last caveletti and the cross rail. After the horse is good at this, you bring in gymnastics. It is not about the height of the jump but the ride between jumps.. counting strides and learning how to help the horse add a stride (can do it in 2 strides.. now do it in three) and find his spot. Again, height is not important. Form and the ride between fences is. Most horses training for jumping do not actually jump more than 2 times a week.. and not a lot of fences.

When you watch a horse jumping Grand Prix, notice how the horse will collect and extend like an accordian over those fences.. a fast two strides.. land, turn, calmly and alertly come down the line to the next fence.. one or two quick strides for momentum.. over.. land and repeat. Notice how 90% of the time the horse is not jumping but between fences on the flat.. and that is how you jump.

Most horses that rush fences have never done enough caveletti, enough gymnastics, enough flat work, enough of the basics NOT jumping.

And so to that end, that is what you must take this horse back to. Basics.

I have taken a horse like this all the way back to ground driving and retraining from their right on up as if never ridden.. taking the full time that someone else never bothered to.
 
#5 ·
I actually have spent a lot of time over cavelletes with him, and he charges those as well. My Pelham bridle is strong enough that I CAN hold him back, but I feel like that is not good training.
Most of the time, people suggest circles for hot horses, but Alexander really does love doing circles-- his speed increases while doing them until I make them so small he can only stand still and he turns his head back to me.

And I have taken him back to basics, as that is the best idea to do when horses' bring along baggage. I've worked him on the lounge line, and I've taught him to ground drives, which he does very well.
 
#6 ·
It sounds like he was never taught to relax under saddle, through no fault of his own and has been bitted up to cover that up. It doesn't really matter if you've only physically done low key things with him, what you have to get to is his mind. Once he mentally comes down, everything else is easy.

Where do you ride? Do you have access to an arena or round pen?

I do this in a snaffle or a side pull. I know, it sounds crazy to ride a hot horse in something that a horse can run through. That won't be the case though. When you ride a hot horse with a big bit and pressure on two reins to keep them from speeding up a couple things happen. The constant pressure dulls their mouth even more since they get used to having that pressure so over time stronger bits are used. Second is that, they learn to brace against it very well, again resulting in stronger bits.

I start a horses reeducation on the ground and get two main things before I will swing a leg over. The horse must flex softly and correctly and disengage their hindquarters well. With those two things, you can sort out a bolter which IS what hot horses are. He goes faster than you want him to.

Where is your starting point? Is he still buddy sour? Does he stand for mounting?

Mount wherever you please and just stand still for a moment. If he goes to walk off, take one rein and bend him to a stop. You'l shorten one rein and slow and softly bring it around in a bit of a circular motion toward your hip. You do not want to pull straight back to your hip as this will cause a horse to get stiff. By moving your hand, outward then back in a circular sort of motion your horse will follow his nose. It is MUCH more difficult for a horse to get bracey when only one rein is used. It make take a number of circles before he stops. When he does, loosen your rein again and give him a rub on his neck. Rub in firm slow motions to encourage relaxation.

Before you ever take a single step forward you want to feel him take a big sigh and relax. Depending on how eager he is to go, you may need to bend him around a few times, alternating which side.

When he is relaxed at the stop, then you need to check that you can move his hindquarters as this is the key ingredient to bending to a stop. You want flex him, slide your leg back to ask him to move over ( then move to a bump with your calf if needed. I usually use a dressage whip but on how, sensitive horses, it is not needed), when he disengages the inside hind leg should step over the outside hind. When this happens, a horse is physically unprepared to bolt, buck, rear etc. They know this so they also must relax a little mentally in order to do that. When both sides are good, ask him to walk off on a loose rein.

When you feel him start to tense up or speed up, softly bend him down to a stop, if he does not disengage his hindquarters on his own, ask him to do so before you let him come to a complete stop. Once he is stopped, give him a rub, wait for him to relax a bit then walk off again. By doing this, you are adding more relaxation instead of tension. The more times you bend to a stop, the more he will relax.

When your walk is good, then ask for a trot. When you first start trotting, only let him trot a couple strides before you bend down to a stop. This is check a couple things. First is that when you do add some speed that he will soften and come back to you, second is to see how long it does take for him to bend to a complete stop. Third, is that, once you add speed, you need to balance him up, he will anticipate going faster and may break to a trot from a walk. This is normal, so go back to a walk and make sure that is relaxed before you trot again.

Then you can start trotting for longer periods of time. Again, every time he tenses or speeds up, bend him down. Then walk off, if your walk is good, ask for the trot. After a while you will not have to bend all the way to a stop, you will feel him relax as soon as he is bent down to a walk. When that happens, great! Just bend to a walk instead. Then, when you just start to pick up on one rein he will relax and you can just bend him down to a slower trot.

When your trot is good, repeat at the lope. It may take one ride to get here or it may take weeks. Do not stress about it or push him faster than he is mentally ready for. Always remember to not push for too much, when things are going well, call it a day, whether it has been ten minutes or an hour. Always remember to get that relaxation, if he bends to a stop but you don't feel him relax, don't walk off yet.

I do give this advice all the time, and i'm sure it's boring to see so much but it does work. The mare in my avatar is a 9 year old and a previous bolter, bucker, would rear if too much pressure was put on her and she was extremely buddy sour. She was the whole package of bag problems and worse, she is very athletic so they were extremely dangerous. She was hot so people used a bigger bit on her, but she's very sensitize so then she would get very anxious about being held back and would throw a bucking fit. Finally, since riding because so stressful for her, being near her buddies was the place to be and she get very buddy sour and her bolting and bucking became worse. She's a former cutter but with her former owners she became so 'unridable' that I was able to buy her for next to nothing. Now, she's very relaxed and all of her previous issues have been sorted through. I did very basic stuff to get her relaxed and now, about a month and a half later, she's ready to do more advanced things. It took her about three weeks before she could lope on a loose rein. Her trot would be excellent but as soon as I asked for the lope, she'd bolt. It was a lot of asking her to lope on a circle where she was very relaxed at a trot, loping one stride then bending to a trot and loping off again. It was very repetitive to say the least but worth it. It's also not as complicated as my long posts make it out to be.
 
#7 ·
Hey there BreakableRider. Thank you for the reply, but I'm sorry to say that what you mentioned, I HAVE been doing with Alex for at least two years.

(I took some notes while going back through your post to remind myself what you brought up, so sorry if these don't correspond with your post extremely well.)

First off, I think I may have given the wrong impression of my riding habits with Alex. In the past year, I have spent 90% of my riding time teaching ground work,refining riding skills, walking around on trails, and teaching tricks. The other 10% has been English under saddle over cavalletes (I have an arena I work Alex in, but it isn't the right size for jumping). I would like to figure out how to calm Alex down and maybe start him on Jumpers again, but that is not my only motive to calming him down.
I have ridden Alex in a hackamore for many years. When I did use a bit, I used a D-ring snaffle. Only for jumpers, and under English saddle, have I used my Pelham bit on him.. not enough time with the bit to construct a new attitude towards riding through it.

I have also trained him to respond well with a rope around his neck, and no bridle. He side passes both ways, turns on forehand and hind end, and will do an (almost) sliding stop and back up with the rope around his neck. I taught him this fairly quickly, and have refined it over time. He came to me already knowing how to neck rein, so it was pretty simple.
He side passes both way at the walk and trot, and partially at the canter (still needs refining).
He flexes his head to me on both sides very easily on ground and in saddle.

He stands for mounting (on both sides) very well and does not move until I tell him to-- I have worked on this with him, and maintain it each and every time I ride him. If he takes a step forward, then I squeeze his sides and tell him back- if he doesn't back immediately as I've taught him, then I pull the reins directly back and he backs up very quickly with light pressure-- I have spent a lot of time training him to be quick and responsive to backing up and verbal cues.

I have also taught him to give his head at the walk and trot, though he gets very wound up at the canter and it can be a bit difficult to have him give his head without it feeling like a fight.
Whenever he gets to trotting too fast, especially around the curves of my arena, I instantly shift my legs SLIGHTLY forward, sit deep, and say "Ho!' and he stops, and then I cue him to back (I was training him to do reining at one point, LOL). I will have him stand still, relax, and once I feel he is calmer, I ask him to trot again. I repeat this every time he starts doing his big floaty, extended trot, since I do want to eventually get to him to trot slow on a loose rein.

I really appreciate these responses, as I don't always say exactly what I need to when I first write out my issue. I have done extensive work with Alex. I have worked with a Pro. Trainer, and even was part of a Julie Goodnight Clinic with him.
 
#30 ·
Hey there BreakableRider. Thank you for the reply, but I'm sorry to say that what you mentioned, I HAVE been doing with Alex for at least two years.

First off, I think I may have given the wrong impression of my riding habits with Alex. In the past year, I have spent 90% of my riding time teaching ground work,refining riding skills, walking around on trails, and teaching tricks .The other 10% has been English under saddle over cavalletes (I have an arena I work Alex in, but it isn't the right size for jumping). I would like to figure out how to calm Alex down and maybe start him on Jumpers again, but that is not my only motive to calming him down.

I have ridden Alex in a hackamore for many years. When I did use a bit, I used a D-ring snaffle. Only for jumpers, and under English saddle, have I used my Pelham bit on him.. not enough time with the bit to construct a new attitude towards riding through it.

I have also trained him to respond well with a rope around his neck, and no bridle.

He side passes both ways, turns on forehand and hind end, and will do an (almost) sliding stop and back up with the rope around his neck. I taught him this fairly quickly, and have refined it over time. He came to me already knowing how to neck rein, so it was pretty simple.
He side passes both way at the walk and trot, and partially at the canter (still needs refining).
He flexes his head to me on both sides very easily on ground and in saddle.


He stands for mounting (on both sides) very well and does not move until I tell him to-- I have worked on this with him, and maintain it each and every time I ride him. If he takes a step forward, then I squeeze his sides and tell him back- if he doesn't back immediately as I've taught him, then I pull the reins directly back and he backs up very quickly with light pressure-- I have spent a lot of time training him to be quick and responsive to backing up and verbal cues.

To be honest, it does not sound like anything that you have outlined has been anywhere close to what I recommended in my above post. My post outlined exactly how to teach a horse to calm down. It sounds like you have done a lot of teaching his body to slow down but you have never got to his mind. In order to get there, you've got to turn loose of him and ride on a complete loose rein so he doesn't have anything to brace against.

Teaching him to back up when he didn't stand for mounting screams that to me. You taught his body to stay put but it doesn't sound like his mind is there at all. If this is something you are still working on, it speaks volumes. I personally wouldn't do that, over time it can create horse that instead of going forwards anticipates backing as you mount. He should mentally be wanting to stand still and chill out.

Being broke physically doesn't correlate to the mentality. The mare I talked about, she did flying changes, spins, has cutting training, half passed, side passed, was in a curb, she knew all sorts of groundwork, had been hauled extensively, etc, etc. It does not matter. She was still green as grass in my eyes, just as your boy sounds. This mare couldn't do things that I expect for a young horse on their first ride under saddle. Until those basics are solid, there will always be problems.

What kind of hackamore is he in?

I have also taught him to give his head at the walk and trot, though he gets very wound up at the canter and it can be a bit difficult to have him give his head without it feeling like a fight.


It should NEVER be about the head. It should be about the whole body. With a horse with a proper education being ridden back to front, the head will end up pretty much where you want it. You may need to do a little tweaking but it should never be a fight.

Whenever he gets to trotting too fast, especially around the curves of my arena, I instantly shift my legs SLIGHTLY forward, sit deep, and say "Ho!' and he stops, and then I cue him to back (I was training him to do reining at one point, LOL). I will have him stand still, relax, and once I feel he is calmer, I ask him to trot again. I repeat this every time he starts doing his big floaty, extended trot, since I do want to eventually get to him to trot slow on a loose rein.

Again, you are only addressing the body which is why this problem has persisted for so long.
LOL, I do THIS quite a lot! I see it as similar to lounging a horse before riding. They both have their pros and cons, but this one is easier to do in the spur of the moment.

It doesn't sound like you have been very consistent with him at all.... You have bent to a stop, you have had him stop immedietly and back up and you have continued to push him forward when he gets too fast. The latter two work with horses that know what they're doing wrong and just need a correction.

Believe it or not, what I have taught him has been very thorough and refined. I have ridden with a few trainers, and they all applaud my work, as they say I have done it right.

Too many trainers can be just as big of a problem as no training at all.

Oh geez, have I let you all believe the wrong assumption? He does very well in the Pelham, I do not have to pull and tug on him to stop him. He is just a very anxious, high strung horse, and I'd like for him to calm himself down. I can get him under control (nearly all the time), and thanks to my experience in the show ring, I can play it off and cover the struggle without too much of a scene, but it feels like there has to be more. Sure there is someway to control his anxious, high-strung MIND SET.

You're very confusing.... You say you have only done key key stuff then you say this which makes it sound like you are still showing. Get OUT of that bit, stop showing and go get your basics right so you don't need a twisted wire pelham to control him NEARLY all the time.
He's on my own property and I have ridden almost every day for several years.
I posted this to help HIM. Not me!


The fact of the matter is that in order to help him, you must first change how you are asking him to do things.

I hate that he is so nervous and wound up. I do not treat him as an abused horse, and that is mostly why I left that information out of my first post.
Treating an abused horse as a damaged good does him no favors.

Im sorry if this post is not very clear, I am a bit tired.

*********He will behave me (for the most part :-p) undersaddle, but he still gets anxious and jiggy.
:-( I don't think I'm describing my problem correctly. Threads like this make me not sleep well at night.
I have dissected your posts and put my replies above in blue.
 
#8 ·
If you have a large riding arena, when he's warmed up ask for the canter. Don't try to hold him back. If you feel safe doing it, let him keep going, just keep your focus well ahead, not down at the ground. He will start to get winded and will want to slow down. Too bad, now is the time to urge him on. Keep him going until he feels like he's dragging an anchor. Yes, he'll be puffing hard and that's what you want. When you decide, relax and bring him down to the walk. Keep him walking to remove the lactic acid from his muscles. He may or may not have learned from this one exercise. When he has regained himself, ask for the canter. If it's what you want, do only half a length, and then walk out of the arena and put him away. If he takes off again, repeat the exercise. He should have figured it out that when he decides to go, it results in hard work. If he's slow on the uptake, you may need to do it a third time. He may test you again, in a week or a month. If that happens a refresher usually ends it for good.
 
#12 · (Edited)
LOL, I do THIS quite a lot! I see it as similar to lounging a horse before riding. They both have their pros and cons, but this one is easier to do in the spur of the moment.
_____
I will most gently suggest that if you ARE doing all the things suggested, you may be doing them incorrectly.

If your horse is rushing caveletti and will not maintain the trot, then that is your first problem (not jumping.. jumping can wait). I am willing to bet this horse travels with a high head and a hollow back.. and is waiting for you to wail on it to move it forward fast in a jump start. Sometimes there is no fix beyond endless patience.

Increasing the bit to increase control is not working.. and can create an oppositional reflex. You pull and they pull.. and believe me you cannot out pull a horse. So you need to loosen your hold.. get the head down and get the horse thinking and no chance to rush or bore or any of that. The above thread does that with this horse.

Believe it or not, what I have taught him has been very thorough and refined. I have ridden with a few trainers, and they all applaud my work, as they say I have done it right. I'm not offended by your comment, Elana. It's very easy to assume someone's training, one way or the other, on the internet!

Oh geez, have I let you all believe the wrong assumption? He does very well in the Pelham, I do not have to pull and tug on him to stop him. He is just a very anxious, high strung horse, and I'd like for him to calm himself down. I can get him under control (nearly all the time), and thanks to my experience in the show ring, I can play it off and cover the struggle without too much of a scene, but it feels like there has to be more. Sure there is someway to control his anxious, high-strung MIND SET.

So sorry, but this phrase "and is waiting for you to wail on it to move it forward fast in a jump start." made little sense to me (maybe because of my German, sorry). If it means that I have to force him over the jump, then let me say that I do NOT. I have to hold him back from charging the jumps.
 
#10 ·
I will most gently suggest that if you ARE doing all the things suggested, you may be doing them incorrectly.

This is about bucking but I would try similar tactics to this:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/videos-how-fix-horse-bucks-me-141655/

If your horse is rushing caveletti and will not maintain the trot, then that is your first problem (not jumping.. jumping can wait). I am willing to bet this horse travels with a high head and a hollow back.. and is waiting for you to wail on it to move it forward fast in a jump start. Sometimes there is no fix beyond endless patience.

Increasing the bit to increase control is not working.. and can create an oppositional reflex. You pull and they pull.. and believe me you cannot out pull a horse. So you need to loosen your hold.. get the head down and get the horse thinking and no chance to rush or bore or any of that. The above thread does that with this horse.
 
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#11 ·
I will add, that while it is nice to have a round pen like in the above video, you can do this without it. I have. The pen is nice because you can use the lines to help with the turning and getting the horse committed to the turn and then let go of his mouth allowing him to complete the turn. Less from you. More from him.
 
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#14 ·
No No.. in Barrel Racing the horse is often taught to jump out of the gate and can become a wired up dancing dervish waiting for that signal.

Do look at that video link. There is huge benefits to that video that I think would help your horse do what you want.. drop his head and relax and think.
 
#16 ·
Let me restate my opening statement but add emphasis on a few words: "Hey yall-- its my first post/day on here. I DON'T KNOW what this community is like, so HOPEFULLY you all are not the stuck up know-it-all KIND of horse people that frequent the internet."

Not calling any of you names, Just mentioning that I hoped you all were not the type of equestrians I have recently had the pleasure of meeting. I have been on several sites, and all I have encountered are young, rude girls calling people idiots and smash talking others for asking questions.

**I just reread your quote again. You were offended about you all not being stuck up? Bad English comprehension on my end? That part of your comment is a bit confusing.
 
#17 ·
Dun, I used this technique on a mare that had been getting her way for a long time, which usually ended in her taking off. This was on a farm with no arena so I headed for the summer fallow. Two outriders came along. She tried to buck at the canter but I'd put a calf halter on her with a chain under her chin so that kept her head up. She took off and I let her go. The outriders were to help direct her if needed, (or pick up the pieces). When she began to tire I made her keep going. She was right pooped. I barely lifted the reins, whispered whoa, and she slammed on the brakes. We went for a 3 hr trail ride and she never tried that again.
 
#18 ·
I see. I usually let him tire himself out in my arena, though he acts the worse in the pasture. He is extremely fast, and my pasture is large rolling hills with trees and some rocks.. I can't help but feel nervous, even from the seat of my computer chair, of galloping so fast across such rough terrain. Alex has very very long legs and a nice long back- he has a long stride and is very fast......
 
#19 ·
TDS, re internet populations, I have seen this happen too and can understand your apprehensions after such a negative experience.

Re your horse conundrum, I think there's been really sound advice here. I know horses can be totally comfortable in pelhams (although I'd only use mullen mouths or port-mouths myself), but with the situation you're describing, my gut instinct would be to go bitless for a while. Anything that remotely irks your horse may exacerbate the pressure-cooker situation you are describing. Also check and re-check all your gear - have a saddle fitter come out and assess your saddle fit (I've heard of cases where horses have gone AWOL because of saddle issues several "experts" missed), check out the horse's back thoroughly - maybe give the horse a decent spell from riding in case there are any lurking injuries, and do groundwork / lunging / liberty work meanwhile, which can only help your situation. Something isn't right here, and pain, or anticipated pain, could well be a factor.

Nutritionally, magnesium and Vitamin B deficiencies are some of the obvious ones that could contribute to being high-strung, and if he's in good shape, experiment with taking him off any high-energy concentrates he may be getting.

Horses also frequently get contaminated with negative emotions, fear, anxiety, frustration, stress etc that their human handlers may be experiencing. Are you calm and cool as a cucumber? Not so easy in our modern world. Maybe you could meditate together! ;-)

Many high-strung horses seem to go well bareback, interestingly. I think it's in part that your communication becomes more nuanced without a saddle, and you tune into the horse better (in part because of greater risk of falling ;-)).

Did I hear that right about German? Also viel Glueck mit der Situation, und kommen Sie ruhig wieder, viele Teilnehmer hier sind keine Ungeheuer! ;-) Tschuess! :)
 
#24 ·
Get rid of the sweet feed. Give him hay pellets or cubes if you want to mix. If he needs grain get a good quality pellet, no sweet feed. Why are his supplements "every now and then"?

Lots of grass and hay and a good mineral and/or ration balancer.

Sounds like his brain has been fried. I would go back to a trainer. I would also get him out of that bit immediately. Get him back into a snaffle. Constant fighting in that bit would make him crazy..You're right it's not good training.

Doesn't sound like he brought along baggage... sounds like this was something that developed. Don't blame him.

What happens if you let him go? (Be safe, but my guess is he needs to go!)

I also would get the vet/chiro out. He may have something out of whack or a mineral imbalance or something.

I am very suspicious that this is something that developed. It is either rider error or something physical. I am leaning towards some combination of (sounds like you have good basics in the saddle but don't know what to do when you are suddenly overhorsed, you handle it but maybe not correctly; and what happened that you suddenly ARE "overhorsed").

Forgive me for using the term overhorsed,, it doesn't sound like you are and there is obviously more going on then that, I'm just trying to describe his behavior.

I REALLY HATE disclaimers and that is probably where tinyliny was coming from, though I don't think what you actually said was rude. A lot of people start threads with "be nice or else" disclaimers which it does sort of sound like at first glance. (Those ARE inappropriate and aggravating) . So not rude, but sounds like a disclaimer, so maybe skip any disclaimers and let what happens happen :)
 
#25 ·
Where is he usually ridden? Do you mostly ride in an arena, or the pasture near the other horses? Is he buddy sour?

Lol sorry for more questions again, without any thoughts yet.

If you ride a lot mainly in an arena, I would say he could be somewhat arena sour. Perhaps taking a break on jumping, and do some trail riding or something like that. Something to relax him, and wear him out. Or something like an obstacle course to get his brain working.

Judging by his history (barrel horse), he is used to being all hyped up and rushing. Sweet feed probably is not helping the situation any. I would personally look into a ration balancer, or something similar.

Also, if you have any video of him being ridden, it would help to see him in action. Pics are a must, too. ;)
 
#26 ·
You have some great points in your reply, but I have answered several of them plenty of times already in this post.
90% of the time I am training him on basics, and am not using my Pelham bit. Most of the time, I use my D-Ring Snaffle or a hackamore on him. Other times, I go bridleless.

Vet said my horse was fine, and saddle is fine.

This post is not about him being too much horse, or anything along those lines. I posted this asking for a way to calm his anxiety, and cool him down.

Maybe getting rid of the sweet feed, but I won't get rid of my horse. Sorry, no.

He's on my own property and I have ridden almost every day for several years.
I posted this to help HIM. Not me! I hate that he is so nervous and wound up. I do not treat him as an abused horse, and that is mostly why I left that information out of my first post.
Treating an abused horse as a damaged good does him no favors.

Im sorry if this post is not very clear, I am a bit tired.

*********He will behave me (for the most part :-p) undersaddle, but he still gets anxious and jiggy.
:-( I don't think I'm describing my problem correctly. Threads like this make me not sleep well at night.
 
#27 ·
Aw, go to sleep and don't stress. We will be here in the am!

So now I'm getting a different vibe.

He is stressed and anxious anytime doing anything he considers jumping (even if it's just cavelletti).

The rest of the time he is nice and quiet.

You only use the Pelham when doing jumping type stuff due to his behavior.

Is this correct?

(When did anyone say to sell him..I missed that)

If that is correct and the vet said everything was fine I agree it's just a training issue and to go back to basics.

I still would get rid of that bit. A slow twist fine a Pelham fine. A slow twist Pelham? No way! Not that I would recommend a slow twist or Pelham on their own. I assume you have experience with double reins? Don't up his bit and just focus on the basics. If you need more control use the hackamore. They are becoming very common in jumping. I would just use the snaffle though.
 
#28 ·
do you have the same issues if someone else rides him?

when is this horse most happy and relaxed?

do you ride him for long rides , such that he works up a good sweat and has a chance to move out for extended trots?
do you ride him out on trails or over the countryside?

I would love to see a video of you riding with him. not that I would critique your riding. I am sure you are a better rider than I am. however, you asked for some different perspectives, from an anonymous group of folks who have only one thing in common; horses.
I know that what I see between a horse and his owner/handler might be very different from what you see. However, I am not getting the feeling that you are actually open to diverse or , perhaps, non-traditional views.

I would say, in a general sense, that though you are doing all kinds of work with your horse, cavaletti, barrels, jumps and what not, your horse never changes how he feels about it. and when you work with him, circling and lunging and ground driving, he gets to the place where he is feeling anxious, and you work with him, but you never get him past that. he is repeatedly left in that place, circling or whatever you are doing to "manage" this. but, he does not get THROUGH it, to where he feels different. to where a change takes place. and, doing more of the same, results in more of the same.

I hear that you are asking for suggestions, but you seem to already have the answers to every suggestion so far offered. I might seek out a totally new trainer, one who is very focussed on the hrose and his emotional state.
I am not saying be all "woo-woo", but your horse is not feeling good about this stuff. He can't change, unless you do.
 
#34 ·
I hear that you are asking for suggestions, but you seem to already have the answers to every suggestion so far offered. I might seek out a totally new trainer, one who is very focussed on the hrose and his emotional state.
I am not saying be all "woo-woo", but your horse is not feeling good about this stuff. He can't change, unless you do.

So so true, the disclaimer, the knock backs, very flimsy evidence I know but it gives an indication of the personality of the author.

The biggest thing here is to be open to new ideas, because what you are doing isn't working.

I was going to type a thought for you, but I guess it would be knocked back, so good luck, hope you can find the magic answer that you are looking for.
 
#31 ·
I agree with Breakable about altering the mind set of this horse. Not an easy thing to do when their minds have been blown.

Horses like this are constantly looking for a pull on the reins, when it isn't there they panic and race off at a trot or canter, often shoving their head down looking for a pull.

I would put this horse in a snaffle, I have found most go better with a Myler snaffle. I would lunge him on a line with side reins loosely fitted and get him very voice obedient, most work for 20 minutes would be at the trot. I'd get him walk, canter, canter halt.

When it came to arena work it would all be on a loose rein. I would concentrate, to start at a walk. I would put a square of poles with a 2 ft gap at the corners and use that to walk him around, inside the circle and outside, over the poles, through the corners and side pass along them. It will get him concentrating and looking down. Guidance comes from an open rein and outside leg.

It is never easy to get a horse like this to relax, it can be done but it takes time and experience as well as a lot of patience.
 
#32 ·
did you even LOOK at that video???? If you did, did you REALLY see what was going on? The point of that video is Ian is changing the horse's thinking.. is making the horse think.. and give him no chance to do anything but think. He actually recognizes his mistake (why he is bucked off.. why the horse even gets the chance to buck) and fixes it in the second go round. The same technique will work with any horse (with variations of course to fit the individual horse).

Most people get on a horse and take it into the school or the ring and do circles and so forth. Ian is actually NOT doing that.. he is getting into the horse's head.

Good luck. Hope you get it fixed.
 
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