Any tips on undoing NH?

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Any tips on undoing NH?

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        04-09-2009, 10:14 PM
    Any tips on undoing NH?

    My American Cream was trained with Parelli for a while (long story), and now he won't lunge. It's gotten progressively worse. He'll go around in one complete circle, then stop, turn in, and just stare at me. I don't even do anything and he still stops. He also backs away from the lunge whip every time I try to get him going again. It's extremely frustrating. I can't even walk up to his side without him turning to face me. He tries to crawl into my lap half the time.

    Every other horse knows that when you point the whip at them it means "out". Norman thinks it means "stop and stare at me". He does it when I try to bring him into a smaller circle, too. I know it's hard to undo something once it's been drilled into a horse's head, but my patience are about gone. He's getting fed up, too. Would a long line help? Or is there another way to teach him to lunge and stay on the circle?
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        04-09-2009, 10:23 PM
    I would just forget about lunging right now as he and you are both getting frustrated with it. Is he broke or was that the purpose of the original NH training was to get him broke? Are you planning to ride or drive him? It may help just to take a step back and let you both breathe for a minute. Work on other things with him. Pony him on trail rides with another horse. Anything just to let him do other things than go in a circle all the time.

    On the other note, if you are dead set about getting him over this as soon as possible, you could try holding the lead in one hand and the excess in the other. (this is kind of a clinton anderson technique, if you have rfd-tv watch a couple of his shows. He is my fave of the well known NH trainers) When he stops to face you, urge him on back into the circle with the hand closest on the rope to him. If he still just stands and looks at you, start swinging the excess toward him in a constant circular motion and slowly move closer to him. Keep urging him to move. If he doesn't, keep going closer and pop him on the shoulder with the end of the lead and the instant that he moves away, stop all pressure and just let him move. Don't stop him to praise him because that will only add to his confusion. Good luck and I hope that I helped.
        04-09-2009, 10:51 PM
    Thanks. :) And yeah, he's broke to ride. I do all kinds of things with him, mostly basic English and trail riding. He's going to start on cavalettis this summer.

    He was only with the NH trainer (who was a hardcore Parelli worshiper. Lord help us) because my mom thought she was great at the time. And my mom knows next to nothing about horses, so go figure.
        04-09-2009, 10:57 PM
    Since he is broke to ride, is there really any reason to lunge him? Me personally, I don't believe in lunging a broke horse when I can do so much more from the saddle. None of my horses have been lunged since they were still in the roundpen training stage and they show no ill effects.
        04-09-2009, 11:09 PM
    That's true. But he's still young and I lunge him to "get the fresh out", so to speak. And to introduce jumps when the time comes. You have to lunge them if you use side reins, too, if he ever needs them. Or if I can't ride that day for whatever reason, it's a good way to exercise him. Once he's older and has some miles on him, I probably won't lunge him at all.
        04-10-2009, 02:00 AM
    Frankly, that's the whole point of the Nh stuff, so you don't have to worry about "getting the fresh out" because the horse won't be uppity, he'll be in the right mind set because of the nh stuff.

    But to each their own.

    That said,...the problem I see is that you're not putting the release of pressure at the right place and I suspect you might be chasing after the hip which causes the horse to stop and turn to face you.

    1) point to your left and cluck/kiss and put pressure on the horse's left shoulder to go to your left. Soon as it turns to your left and the horse is ready to be driven forward, simply look at the hip (don't go after the hip) and put pressure on the hip to go forward.

    2) the horse goes forward around you in a circle, and you put the whip to point at the ground, don't hold it up. Every single time the horse stops and turns to face you, look at the same shoulder as before and tell it to move away and set the horse up so then you can drive the hip forward again....repeat repeat repeat. If you stop when the horse stops and turns and faces you, you're giving the horse the wrong message, you're giving him a release of pressure at the wrong time.

    You've got to be consistent if you want the horse to understand how you lunge and that means, every time he turns and faces, you tell the SHOULDER to move away, don't go after the hip. So, you should be able to stay relatively in one spot in the arena and send the horse around you....without "chasing" his hip to go forward. If you "chase" the hip, you will cause the horse to stop and turn into you.

    If he backs up, follow along (don't play tug of war) and continue to pressure the SHOULDER to move away to then get the horse facing to your left (or your right, whichever direction you're choosing him to go)....soon as he does, stop the pressure for a moment, then put pressure on his hip to drive it forward.

    It's got nothing to do with his being trained Parelli or not. Parelli has a step that sends the horse over obstacles without the person doing much movement which is like regular lunging. The real problem is where you are putting the release of pressure.....

    Put it where you want it and the horse will understand.
    Don't chase the hip.
    Start with the shoulder.

    Move the shoulder. Then drive the hip. If you're consistent, your horse will understand that the pressure goes away if he doesn't keep turning in toward you or if he doesn't back up. If you wiggle the whip at him and he backs up, then keep wiggling the whip and get to tap the SHOULDER if needed to let the horse know you are not telling him to back up. There's pressure if he backs up = he'll soon understand that backing isn't where there's a release of pressure.

    The more consistent you can be, the easier it will be for the horse to comply with how you do things.
        04-10-2009, 02:32 AM
    Just start over... pretend he's a 2-year-old that's never been taught how to lunge. That's how a lot of them act, anyway.
        04-10-2009, 01:25 PM
    Thank ya. :)
    I'll try that.
        04-10-2009, 02:53 PM
    Originally Posted by CloudsMystique    
    Just start over... pretend he's a 2-year-old that's never been taught how to lunge. That's how a lot of them act, anyway.
    That is an idea.

    If we have one that is tough, we have a second person to help encourage the horse forward. Typically stands at the sweet spot to push the horse through.
        04-13-2009, 03:46 PM
    Green Broke
    Originally Posted by CloudsMystique    
    Just start over... pretend he's a 2-year-old that's never been taught how to lunge. That's how a lot of them act, anyway.
    Yup, that's what I was going to say. I helped un-do some NH training with a friend's gelding. It was helpful just to pretend he was a baby and start over. He did well and progressed quickly once he got the hang of it. He would still respond to some NH work properly, as I do like to use some NH techniques, but I get frustrated with the stop and turn thing too. Very annoying!!

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