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Apparently we've forgotten everything

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  • Unhaltering before free lunge
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    04-10-2012, 06:31 AM
  #21
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftyAiresMum    
We've got to work on him moving around me in a circle at all. If I try to drive him forward, as you suggested, he just ends up yielding his hindquarters. The trainer once worked on him for FIFTEEN MINUTES trying to get him to basically lunge in a circle on the lead and got maybe one circle out of him. She was getting sooooo frustrated. All he would do is yield his hindquarters. That's part of the reason I definitely want to work on lunging on a line as part of our re-education. He has this mentality that if he is on a lead that a person is holding, he HAS to remain at their shoulder at all costs.
Yeah, I'd fix that. To be honest, I'd also question a trainer who got "sooooo" frustrated after fifteen minutes. When I've taught horses to lunge, it could take that easily, if not longer. And you know, she's a trainer; she should know how to do this. I'm not a "trainer" and I know how to do this. One I helped I start, we had someone lunging her in the middle of the circle and someone else leading her. The person leading the horse would let her go and gradually increase the time they weren't leading and the horse was under control of the lunger.

Secondly, and this is perhaps more important, I'd teach him that he has to move whatever part of his body out of your space. If I put pressure on my horse's shoulder, she moves the shoulder away. If the pressure is on the ribcage, she leg yields away. If it's on her hindquarters, she swings them away. If I want her to circle around me, I direct with the hand holding the lead and put gentle pressure on the hindquarters with the end of the rope. For direction changes, I hold up the leading hand, stopping the forward energy and increase driving energy so she swings the hind end away. Then I push the shoulders away so she takes a step back as she turns around. That's important; her pulling her shoulders away from me instead of leaning into me as she changes direction. The horse also needs to learn that it can work at any distance; from me up against her shoulder to the end of a ten or twelve foot lead. With the three year old I broke on my own, I had done all the aforementioned stuff, so when he graduated to a 20+' lunge line, it was nothing more than an extension of what he had been doing on a 10' lead.

If this sounds confusing, I can possibly make a video of what I mean if it would help (and if I can draft someone in to holding a camera). I find when reading explanations of this sort of thing online, my eyes glaze over a bit but it makes more sense when I can see it.

From what you say, it sounds as if your guy hasn't quite got the memo about yielding to pressure at all times.
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    04-11-2012, 01:48 AM
  #22
Trained
He used to be good about yielding his shoulder to me (as in, if I stepped toward his shoulder, he moved it away). However, I will be the first to admit that I've gotten lazy in his groundwork. Why? Because he's been so good (until recently). Bad me, I know. Well, I'm paying for it now!

Also, when I say she got so frustrated...I think it was because he picked up free lunging so quickly, that we all excepted him to pick up lunging on a line just as easily. I seriously had him free lunging fairly well after the first day, and he was picking up voice commands after less than a week.

I never had this trouble training my old gelding to lunge on a line (he didn't know how to lunge, period, when I started working with him). I sent him away from me and he would move out as far as I let him and start working at the gait I asked for.

I'm definitely going to watch my Clinton Anderson videos tomorrow, as I know he is BIG on disengaging and lunging. Hopefully I'll pick up something I can use.
     
    04-11-2012, 02:06 AM
  #23
Started
With the left rear hoof thing... One of my best friends got kicked in the face by a horse and now has a half titanium face. So now when she picks out rear hooves she pulls them right out backwards so that if the horse feels the need to kick out, he/she has to pull the leg back in to be able to get force behind the kick, which gives warning to said human in precarious position (sp?)

My boy is funny with his right rear hoof, so when I pick it up and he shifts it, I really pull it up.. Like seriously pull it up.. Because he kind of realizes oh wait mum has hoof, stop swinging it.. Or else it pulls his attention to it and unbalances him a little bit, enough to stand properly but not enough to fall over.
     
    04-11-2012, 02:39 AM
  #24
Trained
Holly, as soon as I touch his left rear leg, he pulls his hoof up (like I said, he'll pick his feet up off the ground at a touch, so all I have to do is grab it and pull it up to where I want it). The problem is, he pulls it up into a strike position. I will grab his hoof and bring it down and out to where I want it to be, but he'll pull it right back up, and if I insist on him bringing it down and out again, he'll start to get pissy and kick at me. Funny thing is, he hasn't done this to either farrier that has worked on him when they pick up his left rear hoof...just me. And he ALWAYS gets in trouble for pulling his hoof away or striking (I mean SERIOUS trouble...I'll tolerate biting before I tolerate kicking/striking...and I have zero tolerance for biting). My corrections when he kicks are quick and hard and he KNOWS he's in trouble. There is no gray area there. Yet he still continues to do it!

I never put myself in a position where anything extremely vital (like my face) could get kicked. I've been clipped on the leg (usually the thigh, but once the shin) two or three times by his kicking, but I can get out of the way pretty easily when he doesn't start to kick. The biggest problem it being his left rear hoof that he has the problems with is that on that side, I'm using my left hand to do the holding while my right hand does the picking. This presents a problem, especially right now, because of my shoulder. When he fought me the other day, it hurt sooo bad. Heck, the back of my bicep, up into where it meets my shoulder, STILL hurts/is tender from it.
     
    04-11-2012, 05:57 PM
  #25
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftyAiresMum    
Holly, as soon as I touch his left rear leg, he pulls his hoof up (like I said, he'll pick his feet up off the ground at a touch, so all I have to do is grab it and pull it up to where I want it). The problem is, he pulls it up into a strike position. I will grab his hoof and bring it down and out to where I want it to be, but he'll pull it right back up, and if I insist on him bringing it down and out again, he'll start to get pissy and kick at me. Funny thing is, he hasn't done this to either farrier that has worked on him when they pick up his left rear hoof...just me. And he ALWAYS gets in trouble for pulling his hoof away or striking (I mean SERIOUS trouble...I'll tolerate biting before I tolerate kicking/striking...and I have zero tolerance for biting). My corrections when he kicks are quick and hard and he KNOWS he's in trouble. There is no gray area there. Yet he still continues to do it!

I never put myself in a position where anything extremely vital (like my face) could get kicked. I've been clipped on the leg (usually the thigh, but once the shin) two or three times by his kicking, but I can get out of the way pretty easily when he doesn't start to kick. The biggest problem it being his left rear hoof that he has the problems with is that on that side, I'm using my left hand to do the holding while my right hand does the picking. This presents a problem, especially right now, because of my shoulder. When he fought me the other day, it hurt sooo bad. Heck, the back of my bicep, up into where it meets my shoulder, STILL hurts/is tender from it.
Blimey... Next step... Electric cattle prodder! (Kidding)

She wasn't kicked while picking out hooves, she was kicked when the horse she was leading into a paddock turned on her... Before she even had the halter off or the gate shut!

I know the pain feeling, my back is ruined and always will be so I have to work through it. I hope your shoulder heals soon!
Both my horses have gotten a hoof pick to the butt for attempting to kick.. But both my horses are 8
     
    04-11-2012, 06:06 PM
  #26
Trained
He doesn't even FEEL it if I hoof pick him in the butt (I'm assuming you mean poke him hard in the butt with the hoof pick). Darned draft horse in him. Lol

I've only come close to being kicked (in the head) once and that was when the people who my friend leased her stable from dropped off a couple of their horses for us to take care of. We didn't have stalls ready for them (it was kind of unexpected when they dropped them off), so we had to put them in turnout until we had stalls fixed up for them. I was assigned the task of putting them out. One of them was a big 16.2hh warmblood gelding who wasn't broke and seriously had no ground manners. Took him into the turnout, shut the gate, and unhaltered him with no problems. Then he turned around and kicked at me as I turned back to the gate. Heard the wind from his hooves whistle past my ear, it was so close! I turned around, threw my arms in the air and chased him around the turnout for a good five minutes, yelling at him and making him MOVE until he submitted. He never tried any funny business with me after that. Lol
     
    04-11-2012, 07:24 PM
  #27
Trained
I don't know, Aires, I am known far and wide :) for not being heavy handed "enough". But, like I said above, if any one of my horses ever kicked at me whilst trying to fuss w their feet, I would skip the personal argument and bum whacking and go straight to the belly band. They fall once - that's the end of it, forever.
     
    04-11-2012, 07:28 PM
  #28
Trained
He has fallen when I've been doing his front feet. He still tries to lean on me on occasion, but I just step out from under him and he catches himself.

Generally, the first time he tries to kick, he gets a hard whack with my open hand and a "Stop being a d*ck!" in a harsh voice. If he tries it again, he gets a hard smack with my closed fist and a "Stop it!" If he tries it yet again, he actually gets a kick from me (and I'm no lightweight...played soccer for almost ten years and was always defense...played keeper my last two years playing and could place-kick the ball 3/4 of the way down the field from a drop). It's only escalated to the kick twice.
     
    04-11-2012, 07:49 PM
  #29
Trained
Wow. I won't "get into" w one of my horses on the ground, I just can't "whack" them. That isn't to say I won't defend myself w a training whip if they are "coming for me". So, I just tend to think of a "work around". I haven't used a belly band on my mare b/c I can't stand to watch it - and I would be to much of a nervous wreck if I didn't watch. Sometimes when I tire of trimming her, I wish I weren't such a push over and would just do it!! She has never offered to kick at me, just farriers. But, w a belly band, they don't always fall - the choice is theirs, and they "connect it" with being poopy when and if they do fall.
     
    04-12-2012, 07:59 AM
  #30
Trained
What I would try with lunging is start out with a very small circle. You can start with him literally close enough for you to touch [at the walk of course] when I want my horse to move out on a circle a throw the rope [or stick etc] at their neck not their butt. This is because I want them to move out but I don't want them to yeild their HQ like they do if you throw the rope at their butt. The nice thing about starting on a teen tiny circle is that you can teach them what parts you want the to move with out long distance. And remember who ever moves first loses, at that has to be him =]

Im glad you're going to be watching some CA videos, he is great !
     

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