Arabians with their head in the clouds - Page 3
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Horse Training

Arabians with their head in the clouds

This is a discussion on Arabians with their head in the clouds within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

    Like Tree145Likes

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        06-07-2013, 11:55 AM
      #21
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by As You Wish    
    Bluspark - She looks alot like my girl, Tie. Tie is 1/2 Arabian 1/2 Saddlebred and I don't know much about Saddlebreds. Here are a couple of pics of her in action at a poker playday from last year

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u97...e_gdata_player

    This is what she's bred for.

    I would work her on the trail. NEVER go straight. Little circles, serpentines, shoukder- in, two tracking, leg yields, NEVER EVER straight. This will keep her busy, and all that bending will get her head down a little, if you do it correctly.
    Now I'm off drooling over her....
    Golden Horse likes this.
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        06-07-2013, 12:12 PM
      #22
    Foal
    Subbing. I have an Arabx.
         
        06-07-2013, 12:40 PM
      #23
    Super Moderator
    Ridden Arabians in the UK show ring have to have the same headset as any other horse as far as working on the bit goes. It doesn't mean the horse isn't relaxed it just means its using itself correctly - in fact the whole outline should be soft and supple
    Arabs got a really bad reputation for being 'star gazers' - that is they hollow their neck (which hollows the back) and look upwards instead of forwards pulling themselves along with their front legs instead of working from behind
    They will always have a higher head carriage by virtue of breed but that should mean an arched neck not a hollow one
    Because a horse is 'just a trail horse' doesn't mean it shouldn't work properly - a bit of schooling can give a much better ride whatever you do.
         
        06-07-2013, 12:41 PM
      #24
    Started
    Make sure your saddle fits. Check the bit. If something is pinching or hurting you can be riding a horse trying to avoid the discomfort. A visit with a chiropractor might also be a good idea.
    If I felt I had to use a martingale I would not have a horse ready for the trail. It sounds like you are riding a rocket and a serious bolt could be likely. I have a horse who was exactly like yours when I got her (Arab/Saddlebred). She came with crappy tack including a martingale. She never wore any of that junk again.
    My advice is to make sure there is no pain and everything fits and go back to Riding 101. Walk until she relaxes enough to lower her head and you are not fighting each other. Yes, Arabs do have a higher head carriage as a rule but that head should come down and relax at the poll. Proceed from there. Others have given good advice.
    This is not going to happen quickly so be patient. It is so worth the work to have a horse who is not going down the trail on the verge of being a runaway.
    Northern likes this.
         
        06-07-2013, 12:42 PM
      #25
    Trained
    For my giraffe, I find that the height of his head directly relates to his level of boredom. High head = high boredom = I'm not giving him enough to do

    Not always, but often enough. I cannot convince him that the deer are seriously not out to get him.

    Now, the height of the tail is his naughty meter. If his tail is at his normal arch, he has his game face (tail?) on and he's with me. The higher the tail the hotter he is and the harder he is to ride.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        06-07-2013, 01:07 PM
      #26
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    Ridden Arabians in the UK show ring have to have the same headset as any other horse as far as working on the bit goes...Because a horse is 'just a trail horse' doesn't mean it shouldn't work properly - a bit of schooling can give a much better ride whatever you do.
    Define working properly.

    Nose tucked in (vertical forehead) isn't good for a trail. A trail horse may not be on the bit at all - and happily so. And frankly, there isn't much evidence that 'collecting' improves a horse's longevity or useful riding life.

    The QHs I see in southern Arizona have mostly been bred to carry their heads lower than an Arabian. That doesn't mean they are using their backs better, or better balanced - just different breeding.
         
        06-07-2013, 01:21 PM
      #27
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsms    
    Define working properly.

    Nose tucked in (vertical forehead) isn't good for a trail. A trail horse may not be on the bit at all - and happily so. And frankly, there isn't much evidence that 'collecting' improves a horse's longevity or useful riding life.

    The QHs I see in southern Arizona have mostly been bred to carry their heads lower than an Arabian. That doesn't mean they are using their backs better, or better balanced - just different breeding.
    Why is a vertical forehead - or one close to that not going to be good on the trails? A horse with its head like that is looking straight ahead at where its going - you don't have to be hanging onto its mouth to achieve that, it becomes a natural for them as they develop good muscle tone
    A horse that's looking upwards and spooks is going to get the action of the bit against the corners of its mouth with no effect and be off rather than on the bars where you can immediately bring them back to you
    A horse with a hollow back and hollow neck is far more likely to get spinal problems because its muscle wont support a rider so well
    Clava and deserthorsewoman like this.
         
        06-07-2013, 01:33 PM
      #28
    Started
    There is a balance between a horse properly in frame and a horse strung out, hollow backed. This happy medium is what you want in a trail horse, one that is naturally ballanced, using its body in the most efficient way with the minimum of human interference.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        06-07-2013, 02:55 PM
      #29
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    Why is a vertical forehead - or one close to that not going to be good on the trails? A horse with its head like that is looking straight ahead at where its going...

    Not from what I've read. A horse has binocular vision over a limited area, and that area when looking ahead is affected by the angle of the head. Thus a horse on a trail, where the footing may be changing constantly - at least where I live - needs to move its head to focus well at different distances.





    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine...n#Visual_field

    A horse that's looking upwards and spooks is going to get the action of the bit against the corners of its mouth with no effect and be off rather than on the bars where you can immediately bring them back to you

    I've never had a horse look UP for more than a few seconds. If the horse isn't too excited, they will respond to the reins regardless. I am a limited fan of curb bits, because I think poll pressure works well for slowing a horse, but a well trained horse will get it done regardless. But when Mia gets excited, it is because she thinks she is racing another horse, and she WILL stretch out like a race horse - which puts the snaffle bit against the molars. Hence I like curb bits...

    A horse with a hollow back and hollow neck is far more likely to get spinal problems because its muscle wont support a rider so well

    Define hollow back & neck. Mia almost NEVER has a hollow neck. She will hollow her back briefly...think of it as collection for the recreational horse. A horse who travels long distances hollow would have problems, and that is usually a sign of a very poor rider or a very poor saddle.

    However, all riding lowers the back somewhat. See here for a study:


    Effect of weight on the horse's back - Part 1
    A collected gait doesn't improve longevity or usefulness. The US Cavalry studied it many years ago, and concluded that for travel outside an arena, a collected gait SHORTENS the horse's useful life and HARMS their health.

    Most horses are not show horses, and most riders are not 'serious' riders, in the sense of riding 4-6 hours a day or more. I ride about 3 hours/WEEK...maybe 5-6 hours/WEEK when the weather and my schedule permit. A rider who rides at that rate doesn't have the fitness to ride like a top rider, and a horse ridden at that rate won't have the fitness of a competitive horse.

    It is fairly easy to train the horse & rider to ride with the horse's back relaxed and free. That is probably as good as a recreational rider, riding a few hours each week, can hope for. The good news is that a horse ridden a few hours each week has less total stress put on its body.

    A man has to know his limitations, Clint said, and the same is true of riders and horses. And while a collected horse moving around the dressage ring can be fun to watch, it isn't needed or even possible for the average recreational horse & rider to move like that. We simply lack the fitness and training, and are not going to get it on a recreational riding schedule.

    For a recreational rider, terms like collection and particularly headset should be stricken from the vocabulary. We ought to concentrate on what we CAN achieve - balance, looseness, relaxation. For trails and weekend games, that is all that is needed, and really all that can be expected. There is no practical reason to ride a horse with its head tucked in. Folks can do it, but there is a reason you don't see horses run loose like that...
    soenjer55 likes this.
         
        06-07-2013, 05:22 PM
      #30
    Super Moderator
    bsms - I think you're confusing a horse working lightly on the bit with a horse schooling in dressage working in paces such as a collected walk, trot or canter - there's a huge difference
    If a horse had its head 'tucked in' it would be in rolkurr
    Having a horse work in a relaxed rounded outline and on the bit in British and most European countries means that its neither above the bit nor behind the bit - theres a lot of room for maneuver between those two points.
    I've always worked my horses like this and at one time never rode anything less than 16.2's that were competition/hunting fit and I'm quite happy with my way of doing things - my lot are all easy to handle in light bits or bitless, if they occasionally spook they never go more than a few feet forwards and I've got them back
    If you're satisfied with Mia then I don't see any reason to argue - you do what suits you best.
    deserthorsewoman likes this.
         

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Arabians & Half-Arabians in Florida? RunRideNDive Horse Breeds 1 10-16-2012 04:48 PM
    Come watch the Arabians and Half-Arabians compete at Dressage at Lexington July 13-15 HGEsquire Horse Shows 8 07-06-2012 07:12 PM
    I can see the way through what has been very thick clouds! netty83 Horse Talk 2 10-04-2011 02:58 PM
    Touch the Clouds 4/23/11 TheRoughrider21 Horse Pictures 10 06-16-2011 10:26 PM
    Introducing my Herd of Arabians and Half Arabians :) Spirit Thyme Horse Pictures 51 09-25-2010 11:52 PM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:06 AM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0