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Arabians with their head in the clouds

11K views 86 replies 30 participants last post by  SketchyHorse 
#1 ·
I know Arabians naturally carry their heads high, but what is the best way to get a decent head set? I use a running martingale when riding, which helps. I also lunge with side-reins. But I want her to behave when other people ride her as well. Suggestions, insights, advise please. :think:
 
#2 ·
There are a million threads on "head set" - all of which come down to: if the horse is correct, its head will be correct. That means the horse must be using its body correctly.
Head down =/= correct. Problem is that most people think "headset!!!!!!!!" Not "correct body!!!"
Want to crank your horse's head down? Be my guest. But anyone who knows better will see that false frame.
Instead, learn how to ride the horse correctly back to front and from your seat and leg and your horse's head will become a barometer of success.
Forget the head. Concentrate on the body. When the body is correct, the head will automatically be correct.
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#5 ·
JustDressageIt - Thanks for your help. I never thought of it that way. I tend to be very light with my hands and try really hard to drive with my seat and leg. I haven't gotten the hang of getting the horse to engage her hindend and get it underneath her the way she should yet.
 
#6 ·
Any breed of horse will have a proper head set if they are carrying their body correctly- the head follows the hind. Like JDI said, don't worry about forcing her head down into a certain head set- work on teaching yourself to get her to go properly, driving from behind. Her head set and correct frame will follow.
Here is a link to a small article on "creating a frame," which might help you.
The Perfect Horse: How to create a frame
 
#12 ·
Right now, I am riding for pleasure. Her movement and balance are OK. She is a very forward horse with alot of energy. On trail rides I have to hold her back constantly or she will be miles ahead of the other horses, even at a walk. I love her energy but if I don't have the running martingale on her, her nose is always in the air. If I give her too much rein, off she goes. I accept her for who she is and love her as she is. I just want her head down so I am not getting so frustrated. I am constantly working her with my seat & legs, trying not to get on her mouth too much.

Thanks for all your advise. I will just keep working her. My other Arabian is the same, so I will be working double-duty and have the strongest legs in CA.:wink:
 
#8 ·
A high head is not a bad thing, especially for an Arabian. Trying to keep the head down of an Arab is not going to happen. It's not a natural position for them and it messes with their gaits.

So my advise is to ride your Arabian for what he is, work on softness throughout the body, flexion of the neck, obedience, openess of the hips and shoudlers, and general correctness of the gait and he will be fine. Don't worry so much about his head, he's not going to ride like a quarter horse.
 
#10 ·
Do you have any pictures? A 'high headset' means different things to different folks. This is Mia (my Arabian mare) totally relaxed:



This is Mia in a normal riding position:



This is Mia when she is concerned about having another horse near her, but not so much as to stiffen her back..or at least not very stiff. Any higher would get her a stiff back:



I don't have any pictures of her on full alert with her back hollowed out...we're usually kind of busy at that point. Let's just say I sometimes am tempted to bite her ears at that point...:?

I think it is more useful to pay attention to how she is moving and balanced. How stiff is her back? Is she moving loose, or with tension? At a canter, she used to stretch way out and get very heavy on the front - to the point I was worried we might flip. I will insist on a higher head at a canter because it helps her to shift her weight back, and I'll accept any tightness in the back in exchange for a safer balance. And as her balance is getting better, she is starting to do it right without getting stiff in the back.

As a suggestion, pay attention to how YOUR balance drives her balance. Where your center of gravity is, how much weight you carry in your rump vs thighs, how freely you move with her - those all play in to how she balances. And your goals in riding will affect what balance you want from her. Dressage is very different from speed. Don't look at other horses heads, but focus on what your goals are, where your horse is at right now, and how your balance and motion can help move her in the direction - over months or even years - in the direction you want.

All just IMHO. Mia and I are obviously a work in progress. Or I hope we're making progress...
 
#11 ·
unlike a thoroughbred or qh, most Arabians tend to have a very high head naturally, and as soon as they are alert, excited, upset, etc, their head goes sky high. this is my mare, who I do endurance with (not in endurance shape in these pics)

her at rest;


what she can look like, if she stretches her neck down


and what she always looks like, at a gallop;


I honestly think trying to keep an arabs head in 'relaxed' position all the time is silly and unrealistic. If someone pulls on their mouth too hard? head goes up. Something scares them? excites them? they decide to argue with their rider? head up. Its one thing to ask them to be in a frame while showing or doing some concentrated schooling, and I certainly think you should teach a horse to use its body most efficiently with a rider by riding back to front, but you also have to give them some leeway when it comes to breed traits.
 
#16 ·
#21 ·
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u97mnQtNYU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This is what she's bred for.

I would work her on the trail. NEVER go straight. Little circles, serpentines, shoukder- in, two tracking, leg yields, NEVER EVER straight. This will keep her busy, and all that bending will get her head down a little, if you do it correctly.
Now I'm off drooling over her....;-)
 
#23 ·
Ridden Arabians in the UK show ring have to have the same headset as any other horse as far as working on the bit goes. It doesn't mean the horse isn't relaxed it just means its using itself correctly - in fact the whole outline should be soft and supple
Arabs got a really bad reputation for being 'star gazers' - that is they hollow their neck (which hollows the back) and look upwards instead of forwards pulling themselves along with their front legs instead of working from behind
They will always have a higher head carriage by virtue of breed but that should mean an arched neck not a hollow one
Because a horse is 'just a trail horse' doesn't mean it shouldn't work properly - a bit of schooling can give a much better ride whatever you do.
 
#26 ·
Ridden Arabians in the UK show ring have to have the same headset as any other horse as far as working on the bit goes...Because a horse is 'just a trail horse' doesn't mean it shouldn't work properly - a bit of schooling can give a much better ride whatever you do.
Define working properly.

Nose tucked in (vertical forehead) isn't good for a trail. A trail horse may not be on the bit at all - and happily so. And frankly, there isn't much evidence that 'collecting' improves a horse's longevity or useful riding life.

The QHs I see in southern Arizona have mostly been bred to carry their heads lower than an Arabian. That doesn't mean they are using their backs better, or better balanced - just different breeding.
 
#24 ·
Make sure your saddle fits. Check the bit. If something is pinching or hurting you can be riding a horse trying to avoid the discomfort. A visit with a chiropractor might also be a good idea.
If I felt I had to use a martingale I would not have a horse ready for the trail. It sounds like you are riding a rocket and a serious bolt could be likely. I have a horse who was exactly like yours when I got her (Arab/Saddlebred). She came with crappy tack including a martingale. She never wore any of that junk again.
My advice is to make sure there is no pain and everything fits and go back to Riding 101. Walk until she relaxes enough to lower her head and you are not fighting each other. Yes, Arabs do have a higher head carriage as a rule but that head should come down and relax at the poll. Proceed from there. Others have given good advice.
This is not going to happen quickly so be patient. It is so worth the work to have a horse who is not going down the trail on the verge of being a runaway.
 
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#25 ·
For my giraffe, I find that the height of his head directly relates to his level of boredom. High head = high boredom = I'm not giving him enough to do

Not always, but often enough. I cannot convince him that the deer are seriously not out to get him.

Now, the height of the tail is his naughty meter. If his tail is at his normal arch, he has his game face (tail?) on and he's with me. The higher the tail the hotter he is and the harder he is to ride.
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#30 ·
bsms - I think you're confusing a horse working lightly on the bit with a horse schooling in dressage working in paces such as a collected walk, trot or canter - there's a huge difference
If a horse had its head 'tucked in' it would be in rolkurr
Having a horse work in a relaxed rounded outline and on the bit in British and most European countries means that its neither above the bit nor behind the bit - theres a lot of room for maneuver between those two points.
I've always worked my horses like this and at one time never rode anything less than 16.2's that were competition/hunting fit and I'm quite happy with my way of doing things - my lot are all easy to handle in light bits or bitless, if they occasionally spook they never go more than a few feet forwards and I've got them back
If you're satisfied with Mia then I don't see any reason to argue - you do what suits you best.
 
#31 ·
The running martingale should only be temporary, to gently show horse that it CAN relax its head & accept the bit, because rider won't hurt her mouth. As an ongoing leverage device, it's bad for the horse & rider partnership, only causing more pain to horse.

You want to "hold hands" as friends, with hand & mouth.
 
#36 ·
Here is some interesting reading for you

The Horse's Balance
"One of the key elements of dressage is improving the horse’s balance. By teaching the horse to carry more of the cumbersome weight of the forehand with its haunches the forehand lightens and makes the horse more agile and balanced."
The only problem is that there is no evidence I've ever seen that this is true. The US Calvary looked at it, and concluded it was false. Dressage improves the horse's balance IN COLLECTED GAITS. That is the goal of dressage - to move with collection. But the natural balance of a horse IS on the front, and any rider on its back will already move the center of gravity aft, since all riders are at least slightly behind the horse's center of gravity.

Modest collection makes the horse more comfortable to ride, but it also slows the horse down. Any energy the hind legs use to support weight is energy not available for the primary job of the hind legs: thrust. If you want to cover ground, then you do not want a collected horse, or collected gaits.

That is why the dressage style of riding is not "proper" riding, and western riding a degraded form of equitation. Having the horse's head held in a vertical position is not natural to the horse, nor needed for good riding. Given that the horse moves its head to adjust its vision, and also does so to adjust its balance, a free moving head is the 'natural' way to ride a horse. And far too many ranch horses have been ridden into their 30s for me to believe that a dressage frame improves longevity. If anything, the evidence I've seen indicates it decreases longevity for the average horse.

I have no objection to folks riding that way. If it makes them and their horse happy, then I have no complaint. I do object to being told it is the "proper" way to ride, or that it makes the horse more agile or live longer.

Based on my experimenting with my own horses, a case can be made that the forward seat is the easiest one on a horse. It frees up the horse's back and puts the rider's center of gravity as close as possible to the horse's natural balance. But a forward seat also doesn't require the horse to carry its head vertically. That is an artificial headset that offers very little outside of collected gaits...


 
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