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Attitude Issues

1K views 9 replies 6 participants last post by  Foxhunter 
#1 ·
So I've had Echo for just over 6 months now but still have a recurring problem that I'm not entirely sure how to fix. She pins her ears at ALL strangers who touch her or get close to her. She won't attack or hurt them but she will show that isn't happy with them around and tends to be a little more 'on guard' when there's strangers around her. She especially hates it when they start to brush her on one side and I'll stand on the other. If it's two strangers on either side, she gets a little worse and may stamp one of her back hooves, though hasn't actually hurt anyone. She's not a mean horse by nature either.

She also didn't like being groomed for while either. She'd always flick her ears back and stomp her back hooves at me too with the occasional 'snarl' look in her lips which she does when she's threatening to nip. She's gotten better but she still has days where she reverts back to this. At present, as soon as I start brushing her neck, she starts tossing her head slightly with her ears going back. If I continue to brush that spot for a bit, she stops and finally just accepts it. Sometimes she's better or does the same thing again when I move down her side. Her back end is totally fine though (and that used to be the "Do Not Touch" zone). Once I have her fine on one side, I'll go to the other side and the process repeats all over again. Brushing her mane and tail haven't been an issue yet either. I trust her enough to stand directly behind her to clean her tail and she's never shown any grumpiness about that.

She used to be horrible with her feet too. Would constantly try to pull them away as I tried cleaning them as well as simply not lift them. Now she's still slow in picking up two of her feet but she does pick them up which is a huge step forward with her. She's almost completely perfect with her feet now. The only thing she's suddenly decided to do in the last two or three days is when I go to clean her right front hoof, she picks it up but then pulls her leg all the way forward away from me, though doesn't do a huge fight about it and relaxes it within a few seconds, but it's still not a nice way for her to pick her foot.

So a bit of info about her 'condition':
Found out a little while ago that two spots in her neck are out, along with a rib or two on either side, as well both sides of her hips and one shoulder. So it's something I have to get regularly fixed for her until her body just stays where it's supposed to be. I know that can cause soreness, but should it really affect her this much for grooming when I have less issues with her when saddling?

Also, a bit about her past may help..
hen I first got her, I moved her out onto a feild with 4 other geldings who were all owned by one lady. They were all real sweethearts and Echo loved being with other horses. At first, things were pretty good. But then her attitude started to change. She was always easy to catch, but she didn't really want to listen. At this point, she'd also only ever had about 5 rides on her throughout the last 2 and a half years. But she hated to stand still (which wasn't a surprise since she never really had to do it before). But at some point, i finally noticed just how much she'd changed by being there (this was after 1 month of being in the field). She was more likely to pin her ears and did so every single time I led her around. She would walk behind me with her ears laid flat. When we stopped, her ears would go forward but the start walking and back they went again. She didn't care much about personal space either. Then there was a saddle i was allowed to barrow to be able to ride her. It wasn't an easy or smooth ride but I never really knew the true cause of it till one day. I was riding her around and things were finally getting better and she was relaxing. But then the person who owned the field another horses showed up. Echo saw their vehicle and at that moment, her behavor changed. She stopped listening to me and started to throw fits with everything till there was no point in even attempting to ride her. (though it never got to the really dangerous point).

After that, I told my family about everything that'd been going on and I started to listen and observe things a lot more too. I don't have physical proof but we came to the conclusion that the lady was abusing Echo. She'd told us that she wasn't about to let a thousand pound animal run her over and beat her so she wouldn't do it. Those are almost her exact words. Basically, she'd smack Echo around to force her to behave. The reason why she even handled Echo was because the horses couldn't be left out in the tall grass during the day because the heat brought out too much of the sugars and it had already caused too much trouble for her other two horses who got sick from it. There were also a few strange marks that showed up on echo that didn't make sense unless you put the pieces together that she'd been hit, not to mention her attitude change that made her into a more dangerous horse than a good one.

So by the end of August, I had her vaccinated and dewormed. I moved her to the stables and for the first week, she was clingy to me due to never being in the stables before. But after that, she went back to being sour. She was so bad by that point that one day when I was saddling her, she actually tried to kick me and narrowly missed my head since i was bent over to get the cinch. At that point, I knew I seriously needed some help cause at this point, she was almost dangerous to handle. I was too scared to saddle her up again and also found out the saddle didnt' fit her right anyways. I also had never done ground work before so I was at a loss as to what to do. So i started to think about selling her and just getting an older calmer horse. But then I got some help from a lady who has a horse in the same alleyway as me which started to change things but not enough. But at this point, she had stopped pinning her ears when I would lead her which was good, but she'd pin her ears and turn her butt to me as soon as I stepped into her stall. Then a Doug Mills clinic came along and I joined in on that. It's made a huge difference. I can finally saddle her without any worries and she greets me at the stall door every time I come to take her out. She follows me more easily and will backup when asked and I can finally ride her without too much concern.

Well, this turned out much longer than I expected... -.- either way, any advice would be very appreciated :)
 
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#2 ·
I'd say she does not trust you, yet. If the previous lady abused her that may explain why she has trust issues, but it may also derive from something you did and didn't even notice, or did unintentionally. It hasn't been much time since you got her, so it makes sense that she still doesn't know if she can trust you.

I'd say if she has trust issues it is rather normal that she does not want people to touch her and that the grooming could be problematic, since you are moving on her body with her having to be alerted all the time. Same goes with her space in the stable: it makes sense that she doesn't want you there.

My advice is to stop riding for a little, like a month or so, it depends on the progresses you make with her, and in general stop forcing her into things. I would do a lot of hanging out together. talk to her, be with her without asking her something. When you take her out (I am not one for stables, but I understand not everybody has the possibility for pasture) hang in the pasture with her, without doing anything, not even touching if you see that's not what she wants. Be a buddy and not a "owner". Keep the goals you reached: like getting in her stable, maybe not for too long and without putting a saddle on her or grooming.

I am having issues with my Lady as well, since a little while ago I approached her while being very nervous and tried to force her into getting back to her shelter. I didn't use any violence, but I guess she picked up my being nervous and reacted. Since then, I can see she doesn't trust me completely and I am working towards regaining that trust by showing her I consider her my peer and that we can come back to our normal relationship.
 
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#3 ·
Being new to horses and being not particularly interested in riding, I have studied a lot about groundwork. Most of the trainers I have studied say something similar to this: Groundwork is more important than anything you do in the saddle.

It sounds like she became bit disrespectful (i.e. turning her butt to you in the stall, pinning her ears, etc.). I have been doing really basic groundwork with a horse that behaved similarly. He has stopped almost all of that ear pinning and does not turn his butt to me anymore.

So I guess my advice would be to learn more groundwork and do it more often.
 
#4 ·
you'd call me an abuser, too, if you saw what I'd do to any horse that tried to actually kick my head when I was working on their feet, . . or who tried to come over on top of me while leading him, or who gave me a serious threat to bit.

this mare MAY have some discomfort/pain issues, but that is something that I think you need a more experience person like a real VET to determine.

I think you need to get hooked up with a good trainer. your mare sounds like a more difficult one, so not the kind that a green hrose owner such as yourself can deal with on your own.
 
#5 ·
Agree with Tiny
Stop excusing this horse's behavior, due to abuse. She sounds more like a horse never taught boundaries nor respect for people.
Hard to tell how trained she is, or if she just has your number. Walking behind you wtlh ears pinned, invading space, actually kicking at you, tuning you out, when she sees another horse, are all signs of a spoiled poorly trained horse
Yes, you should rule out a pain component, far as her attitude, but even then, kicking at people, showing an aggressive attitude , is never allowed
You need help from some experienced horse person
 
#6 ·
Clinton Anderson has a really excellent video series, available on YouTube, on working with rescue horses. He makes it look a lot easier than it is, but gives some decent advice too.

He talks about working with starved or abused horses, saying he treats them exactly the same way he would treat any other horse. His example is putting a starved horse in pasture with a herd. The other horses aren't going to say, "hey, let's make sure she gets hay first since she is so skinny." They will treat her the same as any other horse.

Seems like good advice to me.
 
#7 ·
the thing with CA videos is that you've got to be really 'believeable' in your round pen work to make the changes happen that you are looking for. CA specializes in dealing with mean or troubled horses and works through it by being really firm and directing their feet quickly and with authority. if you can't project authority, you may find it hard to do what he says to do without someone actually there to help you learn how to project authority. as you can see in CA's videos, he works a lot with owners who need him personallly THERE, literally standing next to them to teach them how to get the hrose moving and make themselves a believable source of leadership.
 
#9 ·
Depending on the kind of relationship you want to build with your horse, I would advise you to take a look at Chuck Mintzlaff's Friendship Training. The approach is not the one of being the horse's master but rather his/her friend, while still riding and all. It is another way of looking at horsemanship, I don't know if it may suit you or not. It is more oriented towards what I advised you in my answer, rather than forcing the horse to cohabit with you. After all, we don't instantly trust and accept other people, I don't know why horses should. People undergoing the training usually obtain exceptional results. You can find some of his videos on Youtube, and you can contact him directly and he'll send you the details for participating to the course.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I totally agree with Tiny and Smilie.

You say that after about a month you noticed how she had changed. Chances are that she had your number and was on the way to test how far she could go,

I too would have given her a rude awakening if she kept invading my space, especially if she knew better

Horses get marks on them all the time especially when out with others.

I would bet that at the clinic you attended you were told to stop being so soft with her and to firm up with corrections when she got feisty. Horses need rules and boundaries it is up to anyone dealing with them to see to it. They are much happier knowing where they stand in the pecking order.
 
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