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the barn sour horse

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  • Leading a horse out of the barn

 
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    11-02-2009, 11:51 AM
  #11
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoutrider    
Sorry, but what did my post have to do with an arena? I've used the same kind of method in the arena with gate sour horses, but it has worked well on the trail, too.

Sorry if I'm just misunderstanding your post.
I agree with everyone that she should have worked the horse. Not let him away with just untacking and putting him back in the field. She should have gotten back on him in the arena and worked him hard.
That is what I was getting at. She just let him off.
No work, no nothing
     
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    11-02-2009, 11:59 AM
  #12
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by paint gurl 23    
LOL. I like how you put me on the spot riosdad, is this so you can bash me some more? First of all, in my experience, horses don't just suddenly become barn sour. Things lead up to the behaviour. Most horses are followers, not leaders, they want to have a leader. If you don't take the time to earn there respect then why should they trust in you to keep them safe in the big scary world? Horses will often test their limits, and if they succeed in refusing to leave the property once, then chances are high they will provide a battle every single time you try to leave the property. Before you know it, you have a barn sour horse on your hands. More often than not we are responsible for creating this in the first place. So how would I handle this particular horse? And no Riosdad, I wouldnt use tools..lol...just to amuse you. There is usually two reasons a horse is barn sour. Either he doesnt see you as the alpha or he is just flat out stubborn and gotten away with too much leading up to this. This doesnt mean just undersaddle either. I wouldnt be attempting to ride this horse out knowing he does this because why would I want to put myself in that position and set the horse up for failure? I would be removing outside riding altogether and going back to the basics on the ground to establish a bond and have the horse realize that I am the one that is in control always, in any situation. Earning a horse's respect is far easier on the ground than the back of a horse, not to mention far less dangerous. Again, no spurs or whips! Just knowledge *gasp* wow eh?
Some horses just simpy cannot be broke of this habit if its that extreme so she may have made the right decision selling him if she doesnt have the experience to fix it. No barn sour case is an easy fix, its not one of those things you can just hop on someone horse and he will listen, well maybe to you riosdad, because you wear spurs..lol..
I would honestly be afraid if you were to help this horse riosdad, simply because this isnt a horse you could wear spurs on, you would just multiply the problem times a million. Im not saying that if my horse was to ever run home on me that I would just pack er in and put him away, there is steps that need to be taken so he knows that was unacceptable but getting on him isnt always an option if the rider has got hurt.
This horse is older, he has experience, he has run cross country coarses under his rider?? Why should he suddenly decide to not trust her??
Why handle it from the ground??
It seems when anything happens everyone wants to get off the horse and plant their feet flat on the ground?? Afraid??
The horse and rider have been together most of his life, he should trust her. She wears no spurs, tried a whip but also has a rubber covered snaffle so she doesn't appear to be too rough on him.
This is a combination that just fell apart, much as she loves that horse and love is a word she uses it looked like she was going to sell him.

He needed to know low level dressage. Needed to be bold enough to jump cross country as well a arena jumping. I was told by others that she is very knowledgable???
     
    11-02-2009, 12:30 PM
  #13
Green Broke
I'll concede this point to you RiosDad. In my experience, I find it absolutely unbelieveable how many show riders are considered good riders, can win any class they enter and don't take any crap from their horse in an arena. And then they get out onto the trail and it ALL falls apart. It's like without the security of the arena, they have no idea how to handle misbheavior.

I used to ride with this girl who regularly competed in 3'0" jumpers. She was considered a very talented rider. And then we tried going for a trail ride. Her horse wasn't even DOING anything, he was perky and alert and prancing a bit and snorting at a thing here or there, and she got so upset, she threw herself of him, started bawling her eyes out and walked home. I was completely flabbergasted.

I'm not much of a show rider, but I think trail riding is a good foundation for every horse. It gets them listening to you in all environments. Thankfully, my Arab mare isn't barn sour in the least so I've never had to battle her out on the trail. I've taken Shay-las moms Quarab mare out and she's extremely herd bound so it involved a LOT of spinning and making her work in the fields to make her listen to me. Anytime she hesitated going forward, I'd immediately make her spin a few circles and then give her a good nudge with my heels back in the direction I wanted to go. It didn't take her long to figure out she wasn't getting her way.

If I was riding a horse that was being flat out dangerous, I agree with the others. I'd take him home and work him into one heck of a good sweat and then promptly go back out. Even if it only involved him listening to me for a 10 minute trek back up the trail, I wouldn't put him back until he was listening to me where I wanted him to listen to me.
     
    11-02-2009, 12:36 PM
  #14
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiosDad    
I agree with everyone that she should have worked the horse. Not let him away with just untacking and putting him back in the field. She should have gotten back on him in the arena and worked him hard.
That is what I was getting at. She just let him off.
No work, no nothing
Ahh.. gotcha.

Thanks for the clarification.
     
    11-02-2009, 01:04 PM
  #15
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj    
I'll concede this point to you RiosDad. In my experience, I find it absolutely unbelieveable how many show riders are considered good riders, can win any class they enter and don't take any crap from their horse in an arena. And then they get out onto the trail and it ALL falls apart. It's like without the security of the arena, they have no idea how to handle misbheavior.

I used to ride with this girl who regularly competed in 3'0" jumpers. She was considered a very talented rider. And then we tried going for a trail ride. Her horse wasn't even DOING anything, he was perky and alert and prancing a bit and snorting at a thing here or there, and she got so upset, she threw herself of him, started bawling her eyes out and walked home. I was completely flabbergasted.

I'm not much of a show rider, but I think trail riding is a good foundation for every horse. It gets them listening to you in all environments. Thankfully, my Arab mare isn't barn sour in the least so I've never had to battle her out on the trail. I've taken Shay-las moms Quarab mare out and she's extremely herd bound so it involved a LOT of spinning and making her work in the fields to make her listen to me. Anytime she hesitated going forward, I'd immediately make her spin a few circles and then give her a good nudge with my heels back in the direction I wanted to go. It didn't take her long to figure out she wasn't getting her way.

If I was riding a horse that was being flat out dangerous, I agree with the others. I'd take him home and work him into one heck of a good sweat and then promptly go back out. Even if it only involved him listening to me for a 10 minute trek back up the trail, I wouldn't put him back until he was listening to me where I wanted him to listen to me.
I had an older lady start crying because her security of 4 walls were gone. We got about 1 mile from the barn and she fell apart. I had to take her back right away.
I like the open spaces. If a horse were to be a jerk out there I feel more in control because I have lots of room for him to act up. The only place I feel any nervousness is on a busy tight highway. No ditch to speak of and guard rails with a big truck bearing down.. that is the only place I feel the squeeze but with a good solid horse under you we get over it.
Crossing expressways with no sidewalk also puts the squeeze on us.
     
    11-02-2009, 01:18 PM
  #16
Banned
When the young lady finally gave up I told her I could ride the horse for her. She was really worried I would be too hard on him but the owner of the barn assured her I would be gentle most of the time and rough only when it was needed.
I also told her she could accompany me but she had to stay well behind and let me outfront. I loaned her my old endurance horse.
I always ride in my own saddle. She brought her head stall which contained a rubber coated snaffle with weak reins. I told her to use it on my guy and I would use my headstall which holds a copper roller snaffle with good 3/4 inch long western reins, not knotted but free.

We headed out the lane way heading for the trails, her trailing about 50 feet behind me. A couple of hundred yards from home the horse exploded.
His idea of explode is a violent180 degree spin and a big jump back towards home. The instant he did that I pulled him hard into the ground causing him to rear, a normal reaction for him when pulled up was to the rear. When he went up I only pulled the left rein and when he came back down he was spinning to his left or back in the direction we were going in the first place. I slammed him with both spurs yelling at the same time.
He found himself lunging in the original direction. I totally relaxed and told him he was a good boy.
In another 100 yards we went to cross a railroad track and he did the same as the first time. Spin, rear and lung for home. Again the hard left rein and on coming down the hard jab with the spurs.
Again he lunged over the tracks and settled right down. I relaxed, told him what a good boy he was and we continued on our ride.
I ended up doing a 10 mile loop. Him being a long legged runner travelled at a nice working trot while my guy being a short arab with a smooth effortless lope ranged beside him.
I did ask her to move up beside him after about 1/2 mile and we could travel together, talk and she could see how I handled him.
I don't make contact with a horse's mouth unless it is necessary.
He thought about trying it again well into the ride but you could see him thinking and then changing his mind.
I had a good ride, a relaxed ride and the lady thanked me for showing her how to handle him and for the confidence ride she had on my old boy.
2 weeks later she was to marry and was moving away.
I never saw her again.
     
    11-02-2009, 01:25 PM
  #17
Banned
Churchill summed it up best
"Walk softly and carry a big stick"""
I ride with soft gentle hands, lots of praise and sure precise commands but don't cross me.
It makes for soft gentle light horses.

My son Rio
     
    11-02-2009, 01:38 PM
  #18
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiosDad    
This horse is older, he has experience, he has run cross country coarses under his rider?? Why should he suddenly decide to not trust her??
Why handle it from the ground??
It seems when anything happens everyone wants to get off the horse and plant their feet flat on the ground?? Afraid??
The horse and rider have been together most of his life, he should trust her. She wears no spurs, tried a whip but also has a rubber covered snaffle so she doesn't appear to be too rough on him.
This is a combination that just fell apart, much as she loves that horse and love is a word she uses it looked like she was going to sell him.

He needed to know low level dressage. Needed to be bold enough to jump cross country as well a arena jumping. I was told by others that she is very knowledgable???
How does that make me afraid? Are you that much of an idiot? People can own a horse his whole life and as long as they don't do the proper ground work to establish whos boss, the horse will never fully trust the rider. Its simple. Any horse that doesnt have proper foundation done through groundwork, is bound to have issues. Like someone else said already, the horse can be a fully accomplished horse but if he doesnt see the outside open world very often, its bound to create a gongshow for anyone. If she was that knowledgable she would be able to figure out how to work him through rather then selling him because that doesnt make any sense. Why handle it from the ground? Seriously? LOL OMG. It doesnt matter the age or experience the horse has, if he is a competition horse, he probably hasnt seen the outside open world much to enjoy a relaxing ride. Too many people make the mistake of assuming there horse will be dandy outside just because he's good in competition. It doesnt always work that way. There is "arena" horses and then theres all arounders. Theres this thing its called "exposure" and horses need it. You can't throw just any horse in the open and expect no problems.
     
    11-02-2009, 01:46 PM
  #19
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by paint gurl 23    
How does that make me afraid? Are you that much of an idiot? People can own a horse his whole life and as long as they don't do the proper ground work to establish whos boss, the horse will never fully trust the rider. Its simple. Any horse that doesnt have proper foundation done through groundwork, is bound to have issues. Like someone else said already, the horse can be a fully accomplished horse but if he doesnt see the outside open world very often, its bound to create a gongshow for anyone. If she was that knowledgable she would be able to figure out how to work him through rather then selling him because that doesnt make any sense. Why handle it from the ground? Seriously? LOL OMG. It doesnt matter the age or experience the horse has, if he is a competition horse, he probably hasnt seen the outside open world much to enjoy a relaxing ride. Too many people make the mistake of assuming there horse will be dandy outside just because he's good in competition. It doesnt always work that way. There is "arena" horses and then theres all arounders. Theres this thing its called "exposure" and horses need it. You can't throw just any horse in the open and expect no problems.
This is a cross country horse. He jumps strange course outside. This horse must of had expose just to compete the way he does.
I don't often see arena cross country coarses.. Most of them are held outside in the big open spaces.
You stick to the ground, me I will be in the saddle.
As for the holes in his training, I wasn't there, never rode the horse until that day and we had a good ride, a relaxed ride. Do you honestly think he would beat me if I rode him again.. Did I do damage the first time?? Did I not teach him that to spin, rear and run for home wasn't going to happen??

You'd be on the ground doing your whatever. Me I was out there having a good ride.

PS I never water a horse after I ride him..
     
    11-02-2009, 01:55 PM
  #20
Weanling
Horses are prey animals.... I know from experience that the horse knows that there is certainly something out there that might kill it (even if it is a deer and they can't see it - Just crossing over a main game path freaks horses out) and you have no clue because you don't have the keen senses a horse does.

Maybe there is more to the story then meets the eye.
     

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