the barn sour horse - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RedRoan View Post
Horses are prey animals.... I know from experience that the horse knows that there is certainly something out there that might kill it (even if it is a deer and they can't see it - Just crossing over a main game path freaks horses out) and you have no clue because you don't have the keen senses a horse does.

Maybe there is more to the story then meets the eye.
I think people should forget all the excuses, the saddle doesn't fit, the teeth are sore, he's afraid etc etc and just ride the horse.
The word is RIDE not get off and lead, RIDE the horse and forget the excuses.
If you can't ride the horse then you need improving, not the horse.
There are no bad horse, just bad people
I think Mary Twelvepony or somthing like that said that and I agree.
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post #22 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 02:20 PM
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I disagree, RD. If horse is in pain riding won't do any better.

BTW, I really dislike when horse misbehaves in park. Mostly because there are too many obstacles they can run you into (like a bench) and very often it's too narrow or too dangerous to do one-rein stop (as well as bolt). With that being said it doesn't mean you have to let it do whatever it wants to do.
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post #23 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 02:30 PM
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Here's how I broke a few barn sour horses of the habit.

"Let" him race back to the barn or paddock (assuming you haven't left the property yet, and in my experience, most barn sour horses are giving problems long before they reach the road), then once he's there work the living daylights out of him...if he wants to be there make being there so uncomfortable that making him leave actually DOES become the more favorable thing for him to do.

If you have to, get off and longe him (ie, if he's a rearer, or bucker), and once your through working him, get back on, and ask him to ride out; if he does, praise, and pat him...if not, put him back to work; work him until he 'gets it' that riding off quietly (without the fighting, or turning around) is what you want of him. My last project was a horrible barn\trail sour horse...but a few times of me working the piss out of him AT his desired place made him think twice about wanting to be there...he rode off like a champ after that, and it didn't matter how many times I would ride him back and forth from the paddock to the trail.

Of course, you should rule out pain, or ill fitting tack, but once these are ruled out, I do agree with RD, in that you shouldn't take 'excuses' from a barn sour horse...figure out the problem, and work through it, don't just avoid it, or 'reward it' by getting off. And yes, do this at a safe place; and perfect it there, then go to other places. By then the horse should know what's expected of him.

I challenged him, because I wanted him to figure out that it shouldn't matter how many times in a ride I wanted to leave the barn, he was supposed to do it willingly, without arguement; and if he wanted to argue, then, fine, but he would still have to do what I was asking...maybe just not as quickly as I wanted.

"The ideal horseman has the courage of a lion, the patience of a saint, and the hands of a woman..."

Last edited by mom2pride; 11-02-2009 at 02:36 PM.
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post #24 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RedRoan View Post
I would get off and start lunging the horse away from home. Letting him go home is the last thing I would do haha. Getting his mind focused on a job getting it done, then after he has settled a little bit, reward him and go home.

I would also not just 'go home' untack and throw him back where ever. I would also work more at home getting it in his mind that home means work. Instead of just hoping off and putting him away. I would leave him tied and work around him (like sweeping the floors and other barn chores).

Kicking and spuring is just a harsher way and getting a horses mind back on you. You can make him come back to you by making him work hard and 'doing a job'.

If a horse throws a fit, let him do it.... act like it was nothing once he looks at you for a reaction and go on doing whatever you were doing. If you don't feed to his attitude (and yes fear does), then he will learn that throwing a fit just means more work.
I agree 100% with this post.

Ricci gets worked up leaving the barn, and it's not so much she doesn't want to leave the barn or her friends as she is just SO excited, she can't contain herself. If she acts up, it's in the same spot; the intersection we have to cross to get to the hill. She spins and pops up and bucks and prances. This is when I first give her a swift kick in the right direction, and if that doesn't work, she gets whacked in the rear with my excess rein. She'll give a little buck, but then she goes on. The trick for dealing with Ricci, as well as with most horses, is to not over-react to the bad behavior. Negative attention to a negative behavior is still attention. It's a very simple process. I said, "go" and she can either go when I ask nicely, or she can go when I get a little rough.

That being said, if you aren't capable of handling a certain situation, like rearing, and it scares you enough that you can't do what needs to be done or has become extremely dangerous, that's when the professionals should be called in. It's important to know your limits. I, for one, don't like habitual rearers. I'm confident in my ability to prevent the behavior with Gracie when I start riding her, and I could probably work out the habitual rearer, but it's something I'd rather avoid.

And for the record, I ride in spurs, and very rarely, I ride with my dressage whip. They are simply extensions, and are in fact very rarely used while riding. My horse is trained to respond to my seat and thigh muscles more than my calves or heels. But if I ask Ricci for a leg yield and she doesn't respond as quickly as she is supposed to, she gets a kick with the spur. Ask, tell, demand. I'm very good at never letting my spurs touch her sides unless I'm doing it on purpose, and 98% of the time, Ricci never feels them.

If you don't ride with spurs, you aren't not asking for enough. Some horses are simply more sensitive to cues than others. If you have a dead-sided horse, using spurs appropriately can help the horse become more responsive. If you ride a horse who moves off your leg with the pressure of barely a feather, using spurs can actually create a problem. All artificial aids serve a purpose, and if used appropriately can really make for a better horse, but if your horse doesn't need anything extra to respond to you, there's no reason to use it. If you think that all horses need artificial training aids, or that all artificial training aids are unnecessary, you aren't as good a horseman as you think. Every horse, every situation, every aid is different, and you should be open to dealing with the situation in the way that works best for the horse.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
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post #25 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiosDad View Post
I think people should forget all the excuses, the saddle doesn't fit, the teeth are sore, he's afraid etc etc and just ride the horse.
The word is RIDE not get off and lead, RIDE the horse and forget the excuses.
If you can't ride the horse then you need improving, not the horse.
There are no bad horse, just bad people
I think Mary Twelvepony or somthing like that said that and I agree.
This reply just shows how little you know. Lol. OMG.
So your saying this girl that wants to sell the barn sour horse needs improving yet you still want to sit there and pick my ass about how I would handle the horse? You funny man!
Any horse that has bad teeth, sore back hips christ the list goes on WILL NOT PERFORM TO HIS BEST PERFORMANCE, K? But then there you will sit and spur the **** out of him because your so convinced in that old head of yours that you can "get er done" your way. How does riding someone elses horse that runs home going to fix the situation between her and the horse exactly? You can sit here and brag that you "fixed that darn horse" but what about the relationship between her and that horse. IT REMAINS THE SAME. You didnt fix anything but your ego.
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post #26 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 02:41 PM
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Lol Riosdad... your a work of art.

Seriously there is a point a horse will not listen to you due to pain or fear. That's when people get hurt. And that's when a horse won't trust you and will only act out of fear for your own sake of wanting to ride.

I've seen dosens of people whos saddles don't fit and/or they are over loading the horse's brains with asking them to do so much. The horse starts to act up and the rider whips and spurs the horse to crap thinking that's how to get through it.... yes that will make the horse listen to you but honestly that is a pretty abusive way to get through a problem.

There are times you need to take a step back and look at what your horse is doing. Instead of spuring the horses sides or whipping it, you can get the horse's mind back on you by getting his mind on a single job. In the end you have a horse that wants to listen to you.... not a horse that is listening to you due to fear of what the hell just happened.
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post #27 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kitten_Val View Post
I disagree, RD. If horse is in pain riding won't do any better.

.
Of coarse you don't ride a horse if he is in pain but any time a horse does something someone cry's PAIN.

The barn sour horse rides fine the first 100 yards and then suddenly goes into the pain mod??? Get real. It is just a behavior thing. It has nothing to do with pain.

As for the one rein stop?? I would never do it. Never would want to pull a runaway into a circle, too much chance of whipping out.
Not since I was a teenager have I had a horse really run away with me.
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post #28 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mom2pride View Post
"Let" him race back to the barn or paddock (assuming you haven't left the property yet, and in my experience, most barn sour horses are giving problems long before they reach the road), .
the racing back is the only thing I have issues with. To race back would be dangerous. Barn sour horses react mainly very close to the barn and to allow him to bolt for home at 30 plus mph could be a diaster. Ours for one would be a hard 90 turn followed by flying into the open barn door on concrete.
I agree with working the crap out of him if that is your way.
My way is less then 5 seconds and he is once again on his way. Less then 5 seconds.
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post #29 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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Well said riccil0ve
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post #30 of 69 Old 11-02-2009, 06:44 PM
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>> Of coarse you don't ride a horse if he is in pain but any time a horse does something someone cry's PAIN.


So if a problem arises, it's wrong to consider pain first? Because if you can rule out pain, you can actually fix the problem, but if you don't think about the pain possibility, you're just going to put your horse in MORE pain and cause MORE problems and resentment towards his owner. Has the horse been checked for pain? Because unless he has been vet checked and you are POSITIVE it isn't pain, you'll never know for sure. Maybe he gets excited and tense as leaving the barn, or the rider changes the way she rides, even if it's a tiny change, and the new motion triggers pain. A horse can't say, "It hurts here," you have to figure out what's going on, that is your JOB as a horse owner.




And thanks. 20 year olds can be just as knowledgeable as old farts, you know. =]

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