Bit troubles.

tinyliny · 11-06-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BornToRun

Are you using a western headstall? You could put a leather or chain curb strap on the bit.

A curb strab and a chin strap are two different things. The curb strap goes behind the rein attachment, and it puts pressure up against the lower jaw when the reins are pulled. Used with a leverage type bit.

A chin strap is used with a snaffle bridle, is attached in front of the rein attachement, and applies no pressure against the jaw when the reins are pulled. It only disallows the bit to be pulled sideways through the horse's mouth when using lateral pull.

BB2 · 11-06-2012, 02:03 PM

So do I want a chin or curb?
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COWCHICK77 · 11-06-2012, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB2

Okay, so I am sort of clueless about bits. This is what I WANT to end up with: A mild bit that can generally be used for trail riding and lower level cow work/play days.

What I have now are a few different bits and I have a few problems with each.

On my bay horse, I use a Tom Thumb. She was trained in it, responds to it and I never really even have to touch it because she kneck reins so well. I know it's a harsh bit, but I'm not really looking to change it because it works for her and like I said, I never really put pressure on it. For long trail rides, I can easily ride this horse in a halter.

My grey horse has been ridden in a plethora of bits before I got her, and I realized she responds best to a hackamore. But, I would like some more control in her mouth. Right now I use an egg butt snaffle. I am in the process of teaching her to neck rein and right now she will about 80% of the time, so a direct rein bit isn't a necessity... but I want something I can neck rein with. The egg butt slides through her mouth if I ever direct rein

Which leads me to a question: Can I put a chain or leather strap under her chin on a snaffle to keep it centered?? I feel like that would work so much better.

Like Tiny said, yes you should put a leather chin strap on a snaffle and in front of the reins. A proper western snaffle setup should be on a browband headstall with a chinstrap. The chinstrap on a snaffle has nothing to do with leverage of course but to do exactly as you need, keep the rings pulling through the mouth.

My third horse is my new horse that rides in a snaffle as well, but she only direct reins and I want to teach her to kneck rein.

I teach them with spurs and it works well. I put the rein on their neck, then give leg pressure, then spur. After a few weeks, they will turn on the neck rein and leg pressure alone.

I have never used a bit to train for neck reining because I'm not sure which would work best.
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If you are riding her in a snaffle because that is the level of training she is in I wouldn't up your bit to a curb just because you want to neck rein. I teach my colts to neck rein as soon as I have them in the snaffle even though I am riding them two handed just as I assume you are if riding in a snaffle. Teaching to neck rein is easy especially if she understands your leg/seat cues. If it was me I would start with a leg /seat cue, lay the rein on the neck for the neck rein cue and use a direct rein lastly to position the nose and reinforce the neck rein cue. Using this progression will eventually will make your horse more responsive to your seat and legs but will make your neck rein cues extremely light and barely noticeable. And at that point you are most certainly riding one handed and progressed to a curb bit of some sorts. I don't move to a curb just to teach neck reining but rather when I have taught neck reining and the horse is responsive enough to be in a curb.

@whispering willow....don't be saying stuff like that I will get a big head! LOL

BB2 · 11-06-2012, 02:07 PM

What is a curb bit??
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Peppy Barrel Racing · 11-06-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyliny

A curb strab and a chin strap are two different things. The curb strap goes behind the rein attachment, and it puts pressure up against the lower jaw when the reins are pulled. Used with a leverage type bit.

A chin strap is used with a snaffle bridle, is attached in front of the rein attachement, and applies no pressure against the jaw when the reins are pulled. It only disallows the bit to be pulled sideways through the horse's mouth when using lateral pull.

Oh thank you tiny I was confused about that myself. I was using the curb and chin strap right but I was calling the flat leather chin strap curb too. Chin strap got it that makes more sense

Atleast I knew the difference in purpose lol

tinyliny · 11-06-2012, 02:15 PM

A curb bit is any bit that has shanks on it, so it has "leverage". So, if you pull a certain amount of pressure, the shanks of the curb bit multiply this pressure. They use the moutpiece as a pivot point for the pressure, and create downward pull on the poll, and a squeeze of the lower jaw between the metal mouthpiece and the leather or chain curb strap.

tinyliny · 11-06-2012, 02:17 PM

I use a chin strap on my dressage bridle. It may not look pretty, but if I have to disengage his hindquarters, either 'cause he's being disobediant, or to supple him up and break out any stiffness, then the chin strap helps to keep the bit from pulling through. Such radical sideways pull should be pretty rare, in any form of riding.

Peppy Barrel Racing · 11-06-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyliny

A curb bit is any bit that has shanks on it, so it has "leverage". So, if you pull a certain amount of pressure, the shanks of the curb bit multiply this pressure. They use the moutpiece as a pivot point for the pressure, and create downward pull on the poll, and a squeeze of the lower jaw between the metal mouthpiece and the leather or chain curb strap.

Yeah my gelding needs a curb "leverage" with his hackemore, he's very light but without a curb he starts being a bit of a brat and ignores cues but light curb pressure keeps him where he should be. Joy my mare doesn't need added leverage so she has just a chin strap with her snaffle I barely touch her to get what I want small neck rein and a little leg is all that's needed. I knew one was for pressure and one wasn't but I didn't have the right name for the chin strap. I learn something new everyday on this forum

tinyliny · 11-06-2012, 02:32 PM

Aint that the truth!

I haven't ridden in a curb bridle for ages. I am used to direct reining, even when riding western. I love the direct feel of the horse's mouth. I just haven't done neck reaining in SO long.

I appreciated Cowchick's reminder to use the LEG cue first in the training of neck reining. Use the smallest cue first, and the one that will always be the first one applied in future.

So, since you hope for the hrose to ulitimately move left/right off of 99% leg/seat, use THAT cue first, then back it up with neck rein, then lastly, direct rein. And as horse learns, you subtract the direct rein, then the neck rein and you are back to almost pure seat.

Is that right Cowchick?

COWCHICK77 · 11-06-2012, 02:45 PM

Yes ma'am, or at least that is what I strive for :)

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