Bitless training?

Now I understand why there are so many people against bitless bridles in competitions. Dr. Cook's so called scientific testing last year was not the least bit scientific and was a poor presentation of what bitless can do.

Now comes this shame of a presentation:

The horse appears about 4 minutes into the video

I hope there those of you out there who ride bitless that can do better than this.

I skipped ahead to 4:30 and don't see why you are upset? I'm not going to watch all 10 minutes but I don't see the horse being hurt or harmed in any way and I also don't see any thing that indicates what they are doing should be banned from anything.

The performance is sloppy and they sort of look like a cartoon with the ridiculous Elvis man on top but... I don't see what that has to do with whether or not the horse is wearing/using a bit.

Edit: Ok, I watched the whole horse part and it was really tacky and lame and all that but that could have been just as tacky/lame if they were using a bit so I don't see the problem? The horse seemed perfectly happy to me.

"The performance is sloppy"
"I watched the whole horse part and it was really tacky and lame"

The entire essence of the thread is exaclty that. Bitless performances that do not do justice to the purpose of the equipment, are giving the ammunition to FEI/USEF to prevent those of us who seek to compete bitless, the right to do so.

I was hoping that some of the bitless enthusiasts, no matter the eqiupment, would rise up with some videos of better and more accurate performances.

spirithorse08, there are many products out there that have 'tacky' or 'lame' presentations but the products seem to sell themselves. Have you ever heard of The Snuggie? The commercials are dreadful but the inventors' pockets are full. There are worse things in the world than a bad demonstration by well-meaning people.

Do you want examples of the Coook bitless or the hackamore(bosal)? I ask because I know of a number of great examples of the use of the hackamore in reining and cowhorse performance. I dodn't know if you were strictly interested in dressage or what...

Showing collection and engagement of the hindquarter, no matter the event.

There is a great video of dressage in a halter, though the horse was trained in a bit.

I proposed a rule change with USEF for anykind of bitless dressage, this in an effort to open all events to bitless, no matter the equipment.

I reckon it wouldn't have been any better with a bit so I'm not all together fully understanding what point you're trying to make since I could probably go out and find a dozen similar videos with bits.

How could the video have been better with a bit? That looked like a backyard horse who'd been taught a few tricks and taught to lope slow, and certainly not a rider able better help the horse engage his hind end.

Btw, was that a TWH? His gait seemed off.

You are probably right that even with a bit it would not have been much.

That being said, this is the stuff used against those of us who wish to be allowed to compete bitless.
So trying to get evidence to the contrary that shows bitless riding can produce horses in self carriage, collected and hindquarters engaged.

Nothing more nothing less

I seriously doubt an equine sport association would reject the whole bitless thing just because they saw a few videos of bad riding in a bitless bridle. They've probably seen plenty more bad riding with a bit.

That being said, a lot of associations will see a horse riding in a bitless bridle and think the horse was only being ridden bitless because of refusals to the bit, thus wondering if the horse is going to refuse anything more in the dressage ring.

I thought they were a lot of disciplines that permitted bitless riding, anyway. Don't some Rolex riders ride SJ and XC bitless?