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bits??

This is a discussion on bits?? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        09-04-2008, 02:21 PM
      #21
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by upnover
    The bit should ALWAYS be over his tongue.

    It's difficult to know what exactly is going on even with pictures but I'm thinking that your horse is very very green. Playing with the bit, not going forward when asked, and not turning on a direct rein can individually mean different things, but collectively makes me think that he's barely broke.
    He is playing with the bit becasue it is under his tongue and he is trying to fix it - not becasue he is being playful or green.

    Being green may be the case but any horse who is ridden with the bit under his tongue and an improperly adjusted saddle is not going to move if possible. There is too much pain involved in moving. I think you are right about him being green but we can't know until the other factors are eliminated.

    Goodness gracious, if any of my horses were ridden like that and then whiped if they didn't move, they would mostly try to kill me. That is one forgiving and tolerant horse.
         
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        09-04-2008, 05:00 PM
      #22
    Trained
    I have to say congrats on having a **** fine horse!!!!! He is patient and kind...He doesn't look angry or scared in ANY of the pictures.

    Now...as far as the bit goes...Whoever told you that the bit is to go under the tounge is very very wrong and should be corrected. NEVER is the bit to go under the tongue.

    I would say that Koda is not riding out because his tack is on wrong.

    If he were very green and didn't understand what he was supposed to be doing/ ya know...what his job is...to take us humans on rides. Your butt would have been planted in the dirt!!!! FOR SURE! I have pretty good horses and they would NEVER tolerate a bit like that. YOU HAVE A GOOD HORSE!

    Don't ruin your horse! Please please find someone knowledgable to help you with your tack and horse! I don't want to come off as harsh...You need to understand that what you are doing is VERY wrong and VERY painful for your horse.

    Go ahead and bridle him...Put the bit over his tongue and make sure that it is resting on the bars of his mouth. Adjust the headstall as necessary to keep the bit centered in his mouth. If the horse needs a partial wrinkle in the corner of his mouth to keep the bit adjusted to the proper spot that's ok as long as its not too tight.

    It looks to me as if he can be ridden bareback...can you bridle him again properly and ride him in his pen without a saddle (to let the rubs heal) ? I believe that you will be shocked how much better he will ride with the tack on correctly.

    As far as the rubs go. I tried to look at the saddle adjustment but I couldn't see from the pictures you had. I have a similar saddle for our horses that I don't use because it pinches the withers too badly. If you have not adjusted BOTH sides of the cinch to fit your horse you may have rubs comming from a girth that was adjusted for a different horse. I always always center the girth. (you didn't mention where the saddle came from so this is just a shot in the dark by me to help...)

    If you don't have anyone to help you other than the fellow that told you to put the bit under the horses tounge...Go to your local library!
    Libraries have a wonderful assortment of horse books and training manuals. Even farm stores carry them. A good book would be Stories guide to Training Horses... This book cost me about $20 and has been a very valuable reference to me. As my horses are already trained and it helped me bunches to understand where I was misunderstanding the horse!! It has all sorts of info broke down to understandable pieces. Now I wouldn't necessarily go and train a horse from this book but it allowed me a good reference when I was frustrated or had red flags popping up as to MY faults.

    You are not the first person to make a mistake and I'm glad you are asking for help. Please take the advice that is being given to you on this thread. These folks are pointing you in the right direction!!!
         
        09-04-2008, 06:26 PM
      #23
    Showing
    Thank you Dumas for a good reply and I should apologize for coming off as strong as I did.

    It drives me crazy to see a wonderful horse being abused, even if it is well meaning. Too many people own horses, either by purchase or rescue as examples, that know nothing about their care and treatment. Instead of learning before they acquire their charge, they try to learn after they have their horse. I've seen so many nice horses in my lifetime become unmanageable and even dangerous because of ignorance on the part of their owners.

    I am sure that Nidiaz would like to do the right thing for Koda but the advise she has gotten is so wrong. It is also obvious that she (or he) knows nothing about horses but now has one. That horse is now relying on her for his existence and well being. I'm glad that she has at least come here for help.

    (I'll behave now )
         
        09-04-2008, 11:45 PM
      #24
    Weanling
    Let me first say: I DON'T MISTREAT MY HORSE!! This is the first time I have tacked him up and saddled him to try to ride. Yes I have tried bareback, didnt work either. I DON'T put the bit under Koda's tongue HE DOES IT HIMSELF, and when I noticed it after a very short ride, I untacked him, let him cool off and gave him a bath.I didnt think it was soppose to go under his tongue that's why I came here for advice, not to get yelled at and blamed for mistreating my horse.I don't think my saddle was improperly adjusted,the girth wouldnt go any tighter and it seemed tight even at the moment.I also want to say that when I did ride him I wasnt using the reins all the time I had someone else out there with me leading him on the lead rope, I was using the reins to test him out to see what he knew.
    Yes I do know how to care for my horse,how to feed, when to deworm,bot med etc.I was not 100% positive about the tack and saddle, that's why I'm HERE.I have figured out that Koda is green.I have a trainer coming next week to work with us.
    When I put the bit in his mouth, he plays with it UNTIL HE GETS IT UNDER HIS TONGUE THEN HE STOPS PLAYING WITH IT.I don't underdstand that.Maybe it the wrong size.
    Duma's_Grrrl: No he isn't scared or angry, he is VERY calm.He does have a partial wrinkle in the corner of his mouth and I knew that was fine, you don't want it too tight, I knew that.

    Iridehorses: I don't ABUSE MY HORSE.like I said this was the FIRST TIME I tacked and saddled him up,I knew something wasnt right. No I didnt learn about horses after I was given Koda,I knew alot, but there is a million people out there that always knows more, and ALOT MORE I HAVE TO LEARN, I UNDERSTAND THAT.KODA IS VERY WELL TAKEN CARE OF.I don't board him he is here at my house, I am with him everyday.

    Don't know if I anwered all your questions but I tried too.
         
        09-05-2008, 12:03 AM
      #25
    Trained
    Nldiaz66.....Please understand that we are trying to help...its just harder over the net.

    I have an idea. Maybe you should go ahead and re-bridle Koda and put a good wrinkle in the corners of his mouth. He shouldn't be able to get his tounge over the bit that way...Seems like the bit may be too low in his mouth and he's playing with it. Try taking the bridle up another hole and then of course you will have to adjust the brow band & such. My QH Twister WILL NOT listen to the rider in the saddle when he is on a leadrope. The person on the ground is ALWAYS in control...we have trained him like that so that we can give kids "pony rides" and so that we can have control should he step on a rein that slipped down or any other of the 100 things that can happen. Anyways...My point here is that in order for a rider to actually ride Twister he has to have the lead rope off or tied back to the saddle. He won't ride out with someone leading him. Perhaps Koda is the same way.

    OH...Btw...I think you do a great job caring for Koda...He looks fat and happy to me!!! Tack can be a real pain in the Kazoo to get right. We just care about your horse too!!!
         
        09-05-2008, 12:16 AM
      #26
    Weanling
    I understand ya'll are just trying to help :) I just don't want ya'll to think I abuse my horse. I always take everyones advice and try it.I have took the bridle up one hole and he is still getting the bit under his tongue, so I will try one more.As far as the lead rope I have tied it to the saddle and he still wont go off leg or reins.I was told by the old owners that he is a follower, so I mght have to find someone to ride with after we get everything else straightened out. THANKS
         
        09-05-2008, 01:52 AM
      #27
    Trained
    Have you tried him in a hackamore?
    He could just not like having a piece of metal in his mouth and may be more comfortable and having his mind off of the metal he may be more willing to listen.
         
        09-05-2008, 09:03 AM
      #28
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nldiaz66
    I understand ya'll are just trying to help :) I just don't want ya'll to think I abuse my horse. I always take everyones advice and try it.I have took the bridle up one hole and he is still getting the bit under his tongue, so I will try one more.As far as the lead rope I have tied it to the saddle and he still wont go off leg or reins.I was told by the old owners that he is a follower, so I mght have to find someone to ride with after we get everything else straightened out. THANKS
    Nidiaz, I don't think you are abusing your horse on purpose but through lack of experience. You came to the right place for help. So let's go on from here.

    First I would go to a smaller bit. I think you can adjust the headstall a notch tighter but he is still going to try to get his tongue over it. That's a typical reaction to an improper fitting bit. You have a small horse and from what I see in the pictures the bit is one size too large.

    Next, if it were my horse, I would change to a "D" ring snaffle because of the narrow mouth he has and it will help in the way it sits in his mouth and not cause pinching in the corners. In fact I might go to a 3 piece mouth with him.

    As for the girth, you may not be getting it tight enough because it is too long. Slipping when as tight as you can get it is a typical sign. Try one about 2" or 4" shorter and see if that helps. You said your girth is cotton but it doesn't appear to be in the pics. Going to a simple string girth may help as well.

    Try those suggestions and see if your horse acts a little differently.
         

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