Bits vs Other - Page 3
   

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Horse Training

Bits vs Other

This is a discussion on Bits vs Other within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        05-13-2010, 11:11 AM
      #21
    Banned
    Spirit,

    Part of that training philosophy makes a lot of sense to me - if I haven't trained a horse to respond to my voice and body language, and I can't get whoa, go and turn with voice and body language, I agree, the horse isn't ready for a bit, and riding him in a bit isn't going to give me more control. I've wasted a lot of air trying to convince people that there's nothing magic about a piece of metal in a horse's mouth that makes him stop and turn; it's how the horse has been trained to respond to the piece of metal that does that.

    However, my answer to people having hard hands and using the reins for balance is to teach them to ride more effectively, for example, correct their position and balance, and teach the sequence of aids, not to have them ride in a $110. Rope hackamore.

    Back to the OP, my experiences with hackamores are similiar to other posters. I prefer a bit; I like being able to "play" and work the bit in the horse's mouth, and I think a bit gives you more flexibility with your aids. But some horses, for whatever reasons, respond and go better in a hackamore. If I've run the gamut trying to find a bit that fits, is comfortable and works for an individual horse and haven't found anything that works, sure, I'll try a bosal or a hackamore. And if they work, I'll happily ride the horse in that.

    However, I strongly disagree with the suggestion the a bit offers more "control"; that's an illusion. Control comes from training, not from equipment.

    My two cents.
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        05-13-2010, 11:57 AM
      #22
    Started
    Lol MaryAnn Kennedy actually has a song titled "Green on Green" on one of her CDs. The singing is interesting however the words are so true! "Green on green makes black and blue, wouldn't ride that horse if I were you it's like, walkin on a hot tight-wire, dynamite too close to fire. Today you might get off scott-free but chances are eventually, he'll go up, you'll come down, that's when you'll understand this song. I can't tell you what to do, but green on green makes black and blue." IT'S SO TRUE! Lol.
         
        05-13-2010, 12:03 PM
      #23
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maura    
    Part of that training philosophy makes a lot of sense to me - if I haven't trained a horse to respond to my voice and body language, and I can't get whoa, go and turn with voice and body language, I agree, the horse isn't ready for a bit, and riding him in a bit isn't going to give me more control. I've wasted a lot of air trying to convince people that there's nothing magic about a piece of metal in a horse's mouth that makes him stop and turn; it's how the horse has been trained to respond to the piece of metal that does that.

    Absolutely! I agree with this 100%. It's a shame the horse industry has created bits like bike chain bits to MAKE a horse stop and turn. It's all a matter of understanding the horse's nature and knowing how to work WITH him, not against him, and how to put a proper foundation on him so that the transition to a bit is no big deal. Just good training!

    However, my answer to people having hard hands and using the reins for balance is to teach them to ride more effectively, for example, correct their position and balance, and teach the sequence of aids, not to have them ride in a $110. Rope hackamore.

    I agree, riders who exhibit these habits need to be taught to ride effectively. That's the cure! Parelli doesn't say "Buy the hackamore and your riding issues will be cured." It's probably going to help in the sense that the horse might not show as much resistance, but if the rider is going through the program it outlines what to do to improve your riding. The hackamore isn't going to magically fix a rider with hard hands.
    Replies in bold :)
         
        05-13-2010, 12:46 PM
      #24
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spirithorse    
    Would the hackamore give you more physical control than a bit? No. However in Parelli we don't use the bits for control, we use them for refinement. Parelli suggests starting out in the hackamore because a lot of people have hard hands, use the reins for balance, etc. and using the hackamore will save the horse's mouth. Plus if the horse can't do basic things in the hackamore he's not ready for a bit. The rider goes through a "check list" before ever using a bit, so to speak.
    A rope hack does not give you any type of refinement. IT gives you little control. I agree that beginners have little control of their hands. However they have less control of their seat and legs. So you have NO control. To me a bit is for refined cues. I use my legs and seat a lot more them I use a bit even on my green horses. The bit is the last thing engaged.

    Every horse properly started is ready for a bit. I start all my young horses in a snaffle. Even when ground driving. They get use to it from the get go.

    The Parreli check list is just his way of making money off people who do not have a clue. Spend the money getting equipment that will get the job done and help learning how to use it.
         
        05-13-2010, 12:59 PM
      #25
    Started
    Actually you CAN get a high level of refinement in a rope halter/hackamore. Anyway, the "checklist" I was referring to was not about what DVDs you have, it's like "Can you do ___ and ___ without the horse doing ___ and at Phase 1 or 2?" Things like that.
         
        05-13-2010, 01:34 PM
      #26
    Showing
    There is an old saying that goes "It's not about what you put on their head, it's about what you put in it."

    Does a woman like her have any business riding a green horse in nothing more than a rope halter? No. She doesn't have any business on that horse in the first place but that is beside the point. A rope halter has absolutely no refinement and doesn't have the control when you need it. I could probably train a young horse in nothing but a rope halter but I choose not to because on some horses, there does come a point when you absolutely need that extra little bit of bite offered by the bit. If you can't control a bucking or bolting horse enough to get what you want through their head, then you have the wrong tools. I can ride all my broker horses in a halter or bosal or even just a string around their neck, however, that was not my goal when I started them. Riding bitless or bridless or tackless should not be a goal, it should be a by-product of solid training. I start all my young horses in a snaffle bit simply because that is what I choose to use. It is as soft as I want it to be but also has enough bite to get their attention should I need it. My dad started all his youngsters in a bosal for many, many years until the whole snaffle revolution hit the horse world. Most young horses can be started and ridden in nothing more than a soft hackamore by someone who has an idea of what they are doing, but not everyone has 3 or 4 months to screw around with groundwork getting a horse ready for the rider.
         

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Cleaning horses' bits - no, not those kind of 'bits' Kyani Horse Grooming 79 01-30-2013 01:07 PM
    Bits savvylover112 Driving 5 12-10-2009 11:42 AM
    What do you think of these bits? RedHawk Horse Tack and Equipment 3 05-10-2009 11:39 PM
    Soft Bits vs Harsh bits? Velvetgrace Horse Training 45 11-07-2008 05:02 PM
    bits?? nldiaz66 Horse Training 27 09-05-2008 08:03 AM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:28 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0