bitting trouble

Hi, I own a horse who is 9 (believed to be no older than 6) that is a real pain when it comes to putting a bridle on. Today I was wrestling with him for 45 minutes until he eventually gave up and took his bit, it took 3 of us. He chucks his head up in the air (he's 16.3 & im only 5ft 6!) and he holds it there untill we manage to tickle his chin down. He's currently in a hard rubber pelham, after the dentist wasnt happy that he was in a waterford gag. He's been a little bit better behaved, but no vast improvement. We are thinking of taking him back to basics and retraining him. But what bit is best? I was going to use a mouthing bit with keys, because he likes to get on the bit when ridding and he is CONSTANTLY napping. But people have said no, use a snaffle... Need opinions as he is quite the handful! Anythings helpful!

I have only used snaffle bits on my horses, I have four of my own and one boarded here that also has a snaffle bit.
I used to have a horse here that would put his head high in the air while bridling and how I fixed him was I got a step stool and then I could reach him LOL eventually he gave up and then I had no problems with him bridling......I would also start him with groundwork, get him respecting you and listening to you......it's surprising how groundwork makes a world of difference in horses....

French-link snaffle is my go-to bit most of the time. I have rarely heard of a horse who didn't like it!

I think that you might want to try a few different things with this horse, including basic respect & ground work. Try putting soft but consistent pressure on his poll until he gives to it-- even if it's only an inch! Release & praise. I trained my gelding so that if I place a hand on his poll and apply pressure, he will lower until I release the pressure. Doing this kind of pressure-release exercise might be helpful.

Constantly napping? Do you mean chewing the bit, or do you mean throwing his head around? Jigging, or dancing around or bucking or ?

I mean, is this behavior related to the bit or just his expression of unwillingness to move forward, or too much anxiety (jigging) or?

Personally Myler bits are the best, admittedly expensive but they have one with 3 independent rollers in the middle of the bit, creating a great rolling action.
In terms of his head always up, before you bring the bridle to his face stick your right arm over the top of his head and between his ears (may need to desensitise him first) then pass the bridle from your left hand to your right. Your right arm should be an effective aid against his poll to keep his head down, it then leaves your left hand free to shove a thumb into his mouth at the same time and slip the bit right in.
Other wise maybe put his bridle on while you are standing on a bench, so even if he shoves his head up, you are already there!

If you can find it somewhere on the internet, this will help you a LOT. John Lyons bridling, poll lowering training. Years ago, he wrote a series of articles for Horse & Rider magazine, those techniques were part of the series. I was brought a very hard to bridle filly to train. I followed the instructions and within 10 to 15 minutes, she was lowering her poll and taking the bit, all calm. Ever since then I use those techniques. Hard to write it out all on here, but try find his instructions, were so easy to follow and great success.

By napping, I mean he's got his head down, & when you pull it up its a matter of seconds before its down again, he likes to buck, run out at things, head shakes. I'm going to look into poll pressure & see if that does anything for us, I'll look into roller bits & see what they're like, I personally don't think a snaffle would work, we wanted to put him back in one when we got him, but he just walked all over me!
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DO NOT put poll pressure on a bucker! You will make it a thousand times worse, I promise you it is the worst idea out. That includes all gags, all curbs, anything that isn't a snaffle. If it has leverage, it has poll pressure. And poll pressure encourages the head to drop, which is the opposite of what you want.

The bucking, can you stay on it and remain balanced? If so, PUSH HIM FORWARD. Bridge your reins against his neck so he can't get his head down, and push him forwards. The best thing you can do for buckers is to ride through it.

Your bit does not have to be a plain snaffle. I personally will never put anything twisted in my horse's mouth but slow twist is an option, or a Dr Bristol. Try a thin smooth snaffle, even.

Training is key here. This horse has some BIG holes in his training which need to be fixed. Try remouthing him, or if you don't know how, send him to a trainer. I can't reiterate this enough - TRAINER TRAINER TRAINER. If you don't know how to fix a problem properly, you have to be willing to find someone who DOES.

99.99% of "horse" problems are actually rider problems, either current or past. My gelding for example once had a reputation for being "extremely strong, dirty and dangerous" but he's exactly the opposite, he just can't cope with heavy hands or riders who don't use their seat. Monty is incredibly soft, honest, and safe, for a rider who uses hand only as a last resort and is able to ride with a light following contact or a looping rein. [BUT, he does need a rider who CAN be quite er, firm with their hands, to back up their seat/light hand aids, because he CAN be a wee bit strong at times... but he's certainly not dirty or dangerous. As much as necessary but as little as possible is the approach that works best with him.]

So. Trainer, coach, TRAINING. Get him back in a snaffle.

I would put this horse in a D ring snaffle or loose ring as both bits have a smaller diameter than an eggbutt. The bits you have been using my be too thick for him. When a horse gets like this I resort to clicker/treat training.Try this with just the bit, no bridle. I will just hold the bit inviting him to sniff it. When he does, I will make a cluck sound and offer a small reward. This graduates to him touching it. I will then put my finger in the corner of his mouth and feel his tongue, which may feel hard. I will wiggle my finger until his tongue moves and maybe he opens his mouth a little. C/t. By now he will be trying to figure out how to get the click and reward. Don't advance until you can put your finger in and he starts to mouth. C/t each time. Only then do you set the bit in his mouth. It doesn't have to be perfect as you are going to immediately remove it c/t. Be sure to allow him to let go of it.Do this a dozen times rewarding each time then put him away and leave him alone as that is a huge reward as it removes all pressure. The next time repeat the entire exercise from start to finish altho it won't take as long. Another way of rewarding is to back away a few steps then turn your back to him and wait a minute. Behind your back he will be working his jaw as he relaxes.

How does his tack fit?

I would start a horse like this over.. from the ground work right on up. Some holes in this horse's foundation have led to a bad perfrormance over all. You listed all the evasions. Head down, difficult to bridle, bucking, runing out, shaking his head...Evasions come about from being asked for too much too soon.

I used to get horses like this (rescues). I just started over as if they had never been ridden. I never knew where the hole in the foundation was, so I got an excavator and built a new one from the footings on up.