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bottlefeeding foals soon to be stallions?

6K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  Foxhunter 
#1 ·
Ok so I was wondering if you could bottlefeed a foal that is not going to be gelded and is going to become a stallion. I know that it is dangerous, but why? does the stallion think it's human? What if you let it grow up in a herd? I especially want to know the differences in training the stallion later on. Thanks!
 
#3 ·
99% of stallions are better geldings.. I truly have no idea exactly what you want to know? Most horses who are brought up by humans end up as spoiled, bratty , useless and dangerous animals. Horses need to learn to be horses with other horses. They need a mare to kick the crap out of them to learn what is acceptable behaviour. If you don't know how to look after a stallion don't keep it a stallion
 
#4 ·
I don't know why the foal is to be kept as a stallion but that's not at all part of the scenario here as a badly raised orphan foal will be dangerous whatever it is mare, gelding or stallion
Bottle feeding won't make the foal dangerous as long as you don't treat it like a pet poodle and you establish firm rules from the start
Ideally you should look for a foster mother for an orphan foal but if you can't do that then try to find a newly weaned foal or a safe well mannered pony as a companion for it - apart from when the foal's being fed it should be with its companion
I had a mare that had been abandoned by her mother and had been badly raised by the people who bred her, I had some problems for a short while but once they were overcome I would say she was the best horse I've ever had. I always kept her with other horses from age 3 when I bought her and she knew how to be a horse but she always preferred to be around humans than around horses.
 
#5 ·
I think someone saw the movie "Buck". Bottle feeding a future stallion sometimes leads to more aggression because he doesn't have his mom scolding him if he sucks too hard, bites down, etc. Those little things are a start in his life that puts him in his place and something imprinted in his brain. Yes you can have a foster horse in with him but the nursing process discipline won't be the same. We hold the bottle, we don't know if he is sucking too hard, if he is using his teeth. Also a nursed foal is constantly taking little sips from mom, if she feels it's too much or she don't want to at the moment, he is put in his place. Whereas we come out with the bottle at regular intervals, feeding is feeding when we bottle feed a foal, nursing is learning to be a respectful horse opportunites.
 
#6 ·
I hope I'm reading your post wrong and I really hope you aren't thinking about taking a foal away from it's dam just so you can bottle raise it.

I've never raised an orphaned foal but I'll tell you the huge mistake I made with the first one I raised and that was I spent too much time with him. I didn't let him get by with really bad things but I did let him get by with some things you'd never allow from a full grown horse. He became spoiled, demanding and had absolutely no concept of boundaries. He taught me a lot of good lessons on how not to raise a foal and I couldn't wait for those little gonads to drop so that I could have him gelded, which happened at 5 months. He's 21 now and still forgets he has to have manners sometimes. He's good with me but you can bet I watch him like a hawk when he's around other people because he wants to see if he can intimidate them. The thought of what he'd be like if I would have been his meal provider makes me shudder.

Many foals later and while I still spent time with them so that they were easily handled, I didn't spend every spare minute I had playing or messing with them and that actually made training them, when the time come, a whole lot easier.
 
#22 ·
Horses, and other animals, will do what you allow them to do.

If you allow them to have poor manners, they are going to have poor manners.

When it comes to a stallion, those poor manners can literally be life-threatenly dangerous.

It's not the bottle feeding that makes the stallion dangerous, it's just the manners the horse was taught (or lack thereof).

My parents raise cattle. As far as bulls go, we actually like our bulls to be a bit on the tamer side because you are able to handle them better. They quite love a good scratch on the back when the flies are biting! And often enjoy their neck and head scratched too. However, they are a bull and you never let your guard down or turn your back on them. But on that same token, you do not want them TOO tame. Or else they won't respect you. You have to have the right balance.

Bulls are a bit different than stallions. Cattle aren't as trainable as horses. Yes, they can be trained but not necessarily to the same level as a horse.
 
#8 ·
Well, you need to check the source of your stories
It is very common to wean baby bull dairy calves when they are a day or so old, and in fact, there was a time we bought them and raised them.
It is not the sex, but rather having these young animals realize they are not people, or on par with them, and to teach them manners that their dam would have, versus treating them like spoiled pets
 
#13 ·
That horse has serious issues. She had bottle fed it from birth and it apparently stopped breathing so she resuscitated it but it was believed that it had some kind of brain damage. Not only that it was running with her other studs and had never been taught how to behave properly and when someone did try it attacked them.
 
#12 ·
I think that if Buck Buchanan, who was dealing with the horse at a clinic, reckoned it was beyond redemption, then it was.

As he says in the video, the only safe place to be around that particular horse was on its back and they had ridden it earlier. It wasn't a young horse, spoiled by the owner and as she collected horses like some women collect shoes, 18 stallions at her home, even if he had got the horse going, it would soon revert back to what it knew.

No horse is more important than a human life.
 
#14 ·
Q: One of the film’s most memorable scenes is a woman arriving at one of your clinics with a horse that’s so dangerous, so violent that even you couldn’t even help it. The next day when someone inquires about the horse, you get very emotional — almost angry — and state that “Humans failed that horse.” What was going on inside you at the time?

A: No one was more sad about that horse than me. That horse was never gonna be a complete horse because of the brain damage he had at birth. But humans had failed in their responsibility to help that horse learn right from wrong at an early enough stage before he became lethal. It’s like a handicapped child that maybe doesn’t have that internal ability to be able to tell right from wrong. Someone could have helped that horse understand right from wrong, how to fit in and how to get along in the world. But nobody had been there for the horse to teach him that. It’s about taking responsibility and being a responsible parent or a caretaker of an animal, and helping them to learn because you can really have a great effect on them right off the bat.


From an interview with buck

Star of Buck Speaks Out About What You Didn't See in the Film | The Huffington Post
 
#15 ·
It needed castrated before dealing with it. This video showed me that the first man went after the colt with a whip, then the mustached man took him into an arena and tried to sack him out ? when the horse had not been handled ? This
horse should have been taught manners before sacking it out. It is a shame that this colt was taught no manners .
Attacking a person is not acceptable.
Posting only partial clips is misleading, and does not give a story and background. If there was a story with this video, the volume was not audible on my system.
 
#18 ·
When a horses answer is "fight" not "flight", especially to that extreme, it needs to be destroyed. There are few, if any trainers that could deal with a horse like that. A user on here, Cherie, is known for dealing with some pretty rank horses, and I'm pretty sure she has commented on the story of Buck before. There was no hope for that horse. I could only imagine the caliber of training that would be necessary, and I don't think it would be any nice, traditional training.
 
#27 ·
She still does have all of those horses, btw. And the stallions are still all turned out together. Lady breeds for colorful curly horses.

Here's a caption from a photo a few years back, I will leave off the ranch's name. There are still similar posts being made

"When we first got Noah, he'd never been allowed to run with other studs. Here we are introducing Noah to several other stallions before turning him out with them. Aside from the initial and very normal snorting, screaming and pawing, once turned out to run with the other boys, aside from his massive size, Noah fit in perfectly."
 
#17 ·
Bottle feeding any horse should be a last resort. Seldom will a human have the knowledge or discipline to teach a colt to be a disciplined horse, and without this knowledge hand feeding can create a pushy and/or aggressive horse if they are not taught to be respectful.

The other very relevant issue here is why & what about this horse makes you consider keeping it as a stallion? A stallion prospect must be a complete package with confirmation, breeding , train-ability, and great temperament. If they fall short in any area , or if you are not a serious breeder they need to be geldings.

Best of luck,
 
#19 ·
I know, off the top of my head, at least five horses that were bottle babies. Five of the rankest equine personalities I have come across.

That's not to say it would be impossible to raise an orphan who ended up with nice manners. But I think the crux of the issue is that with a bottle baby - or even non-bottle orphan - humans become the source of all of their stimulation. Food? People. Cuddles? People. Social interaction? People. So when these "cayoot!" lickle babies grow up, they have no boundaries, especially when paired with the human nature of babying the poor widdle orphan.

All of the bottle babies I know are at my place of work, and none of them were raised by us. If we end up with anything that comes in orphaned, or we lose a dam in our care, the foal goes on milk replacement pellets (made into soup if necessary) and supplements, and is fed from a bowl - no hand feeding or bottle feeding. We also find a mare ASAP who would be willing to take the foal on in an adoption capacity, whilst not nursing. This works pretty well, as the foal can still learn to be a horse from a proper equine maternal figure, and the food comes in a bowl drop over a fence or door, rather than straight from a person.
 
#20 ·
I have raised several orphan foals mad like Rex, they are paired with a suitable horse or a foster mother, so they grow up knowing that they are tombe a horse.

My old mare was a wonderful surrogate dam. She would take any foal and mother it with no nonsense allowed. The first time I used her one of our mares died whilst at the stud, I took Madam and collected the foal. They travelled separated but as soon as I dropped the ramp I knew she had 'her' baby. I outnthem out in a small paddock next to where the other mares and foals were turned out, she paraded that foal showing her off. I let them in with the other mares and foals and she was protective of the foal but within minutes they were all grazing together.

I used her many times for this, with another orphan of ours and several times with outsiders orphan foals.
 
#23 ·
I have a bottle baby and she has zero regard for space. I had to really instill in her that she needed to respect me, and she learned, but it was a battle at first.

I have seen some who were fine and some who were nasty, dominant animals. It just depends on how experienced the hand.

I have spoken on that Buck video before, and I don't agree with what was done with the horse, but what I would have done would have been an approach very few people would have been comfortable doing. That horse was playing for keeps. I would have knocked him out, gelded him, and then had a come to jesus meeting involving a stock whip, a hot shot, a 2x4, or any combination of the three. This is something I have done before, I'm still waiting for the day when I meet one so out of his mind he won't listen to those extremes. Then again, I like to take on lost causes. I also don't have a problem putting one down if it doesn't work, but I do think they should of given it more of a go. Probably couldn't though, with the cameras on. Fixing one like that definitely isn't something you do in polite company.
 
#25 · (Edited)
That would be the one in the Buck B story.
Yes, that woman was a hoarder and created that dangerous foal, but I also continue to disagree strongly, as to how Buck handled that situation
He was no different than CA needing to produce 'instant results.
For an aggressive stallion, the idea of roping a hind leg, the having a rider ride him, controlling the horse with that rope on a hind leg, pretty much sets such ahorse up to 'get that person, soon as opportunity arises, and exactly what that horse did, to the person who had ridden him
First thing, JMO, would have been to geld that horse, let him sit in a pasture for a month, and then start working with him. Maybe the same end result, with the horse being beyond rehabilitation, but I do see CA being really focused on, while trainers like buck, seem immune to any negative feed back.
Okay, going off topic, but just had to get this off my chest!
I raised a filly, weaned at one month, and she was one of the best horses I ever raised. She herself was very easy to train, and produced many great minded horses.
It is not the bottle feeding/hand raising, but rather the failure to introduce the same learning curve that foals learn from their dam and fellow herd mates, treating that foa llike a baby, having that foal consider itself human and at least equal to that human, if not through natural un corrected testing-superior
 
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