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Breeding Stud turned Riding horse problems

This is a discussion on Breeding Stud turned Riding horse problems within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Bare back and bridles
  • Riding bare back

 
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    04-22-2011, 10:50 AM
  #21
Showing
I also agree with lots of wet saddle pads. As far as no control, has he been taught a one rein stop? If not, I would spend some time working on that so you have that tool in your belt if you need it.

I have a pole of knowledge in my pasture as well. I wouldn't leave one tied for my herd to visit, but I have some very bossy alpha broodmares that would certainly take opportunity to rail on a gelding. If it could be a controlled situation where you could back the others off if need be, I would consider it. If you lived by me, I'd let you turn him out with my bossy butt mares...they keep all of our studs in check! My oldest & most alpha mare just has to look at them cross eyed and they turn into big wimps.

The sidepull is also a great idea. I use a half-breed w/a rawhide noseband & snaffle on a lot of mine, especially youngsters who try to run through a bit. You get the benefit of nose pressure as well as the handling of a bit, without worry of hardening a mouth.
     
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    04-22-2011, 11:10 AM
  #22
Foal
Just so you can see some of what I am working with here is a video of my dad lunging him, I cannot video and do it so Dad stepped in to lunge him, he is under our training saddle and the stirrups are tied up so they are not slapping him in the sides. Although you cannot see it because I am stepping back when he stops on his own my Dad is not hitting him with the whip but smaking the ground asking him to move out.

101_0998.mp4 video by laceyroo1471 - Photobucket

Here is a pic of him taking a bow



Then a pic from atop him riding bare back trying out a new bit (that didnt work out by the way lol)


Then just hanging out...
     
    04-22-2011, 11:11 AM
  #23
Yearling
I appreciate your hesitance to use an o-ring snaffle. I have seen what your saying about the o-ring snaffles causing pinching. In those instances I have seen the pinching caused by improper fitting bits usually with a to short a bit from ring to ring for the horse's mouth. Both English and Western bits come in 4-1/2 inch up to 5+ inch widths. Even tho the side-pull itself may help you and your horse a lot you might investigate the various widths of snaffle bits. Trust me, I am not questioning your being able to bit your horse, but just offering up suggestions.
     
    04-22-2011, 12:32 PM
  #24
Showing
I think I might need to clarify about putting miles on him. I don't mean on a nice leisurely trail ride where it is mostly walk and a little bit of trot and lope. I mean that everywhere you go is at a long trot or a lope. He should be sucking air pretty hard long before you get done. I also wouldn't even attempt riding with more than 1 or 2 people until you really get some handle on him mainly because it is too dangerous for the other riders. That's one of the reasons why it is so hard to find someone to ride with me, normally I will lope for a mile or more and then slow down to a long trot while they get a bit of air back, then back up to a lope we go and I keep that up for up to 5 or more miles, depending on the horse.

It's amazing how quickly they forget about acting stupid when they are focusing on trying to get enough oxygen.
     
    04-22-2011, 12:55 PM
  #25
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by candandy49    
I appreciate your hesitance to use an o-ring snaffle. I have seen what your saying about the o-ring snaffles causing pinching. In those instances I have seen the pinching caused by improper fitting bits usually with a to short a bit from ring to ring for the horse's mouth. Both English and Western bits come in 4-1/2 inch up to 5+ inch widths. Even tho the side-pull itself may help you and your horse a lot you might investigate the various widths of snaffle bits. Trust me, I am not questioning your being able to bit your horse, but just offering up suggestions.
Not taking offense at all, suggestions welcome and appreciated. Just sharing my personal experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
I think I might need to clarify about putting miles on him. I don't mean on a nice leisurely trail ride where it is mostly walk and a little bit of trot and lope. I mean that everywhere you go is at a long trot or a lope. He should be sucking air pretty hard long before you get done. I also wouldn't even attempt riding with more than 1 or 2 people until you really get some handle on him mainly because it is too dangerous for the other riders. That's one of the reasons why it is so hard to find someone to ride with me, normally I will lope for a mile or more and then slow down to a long trot while they get a bit of air back, then back up to a lope we go and I keep that up for up to 5 or more miles, depending on the horse.

It's amazing how quickly they forget about acting stupid when they are focusing on trying to get enough oxygen.
This is a new train of thought for me, I have always (maybe because I tried to keep barrel horse from turning into hot messes) been the type to ride at a walk or slow trot. I have always had the mind perception that you can always speed a horse up its slowing them down that can be the problem. Now when I work in the arena I will trot and lope around just to get the same movement off my legs at those paces as I do when they are at a walk, reinforce the WHOA! Work on sliding stops etc etc. I havent done so outside of the arena. I am going to try this, since he is not going to be a barrel horse and I don't fear him getting too hot its something I never even considered. I just took a peak at your blog and I was on an older post about letting a horse yeild to pressure of the reins on their own. WHAT AN EXCELLENT IDEA!! I am going to do this tonight. Just to try and get him to soften up a bit. I am still healing from torn muscles in my shoulder and back from getting dumped two times in one day (the infamous week 3 training where they don't wanna and buck) So I am taking it a little easier than normal but I am still going to work him as much as physically possible.
     
    04-22-2011, 03:12 PM
  #26
Showing
I can certainly understand where you are coming from and that is a solid practice to only work on slow things when you have a horse that is already hot. However, lots of loping and trotting won't make a young horse hot. It's the sprinting and whipping and harsh handling of spurs and bits that make most barrel horses hot and the constant running flat out that makes other horses hot.
     
    04-23-2011, 09:14 AM
  #27
Yearling
In the post with your pictures of you bareback on your guy and the bit you found that didn't work for you or him I can give some info on that bit. It is of the Tom Thumb type and is/can be a very severe bit with it's short straight shanks and short purchase( the length from mouth piece to bridle cheek rings) even though it might have a broken/jointed mouth piece. It is literally one of the "nutcracker bits". It is sometimes used with a chain curb strap instead of the leather curb strap in your picture. For a milder curb bit try a reining horse bit with curved shanks. There is much less leverage with curved shanks.
     
    04-23-2011, 01:12 PM
  #28
Foal
YEAHHHHHH The person I wanted to work with my boy has contacted me back and agreed to train him for a month and see where we are at after that. If needed we will continue after a month too. I am relieved. Now just to find a horse to borrower for next weekends ride at Salt Fork State Park in OH!!

As far as the bit, I was running through my arsenal at that point. That was an old barrel racing bit I used to pick horses up off a barrel when they were blowing barrels. I wanted to just try it. I think we tried about 5 bits, a bossal, a slide hack, and a mechanical hack (which resulted in bucking) just to see where he was comfortable AND I had some sort of control.

But the good, I have a professional trainer that has studs of his own that he professionally shows so he has experience with these types of situation.

~SIGH~ I feel this huge sense of relief. I thank everyone here and there input as I will still be working him too with the direction of the trainer at the barn. Your thoughts and help will be rining in my ears! Thanks soooo much!!
     
    04-29-2011, 05:17 PM
  #29
Foal
UPDATE: Trainer has been working the boy for a week now... AND......

Wait for it...
Wait for it...

He is getting WORSE!! The trainer has not even been riding with any other horses just working him by himself. The mares that are on the farm are bred already (well not sure if they took since they were just bred with in the last month) So there are not even any mares in heat that he could be smelling. My heart is breaking. I am hoping that maybe this is just his last ditch effort to not be a riding horse and he will turn around. I really don't want to sell him because I was hoping that I would have him for the rest of his life and make him a "hubby" horse in a few years once I start my barrel horse. I almost want to cry. The trainer is not giving up and is now going to ride 5 days on him instead of 4. I love everything about this horse. His confirmation is to die for, he is a dream to be around on the ground, he is super smart, perfect size, has potential out the bum, he is a looker, did I mention smart??

Those of you with studs and experiences with studs does it get worse before it gets better sometimes? It seems like he is taking 20 steps back! He was a nightmare last night. It was horrible, I did not get involved, just watched for a bit until I could not stand there any longer and had to walk away. I had tears in my eyes walking out of the barn. It seems like as soon as the trainer is putting a leg over he does a 360 and everything he just did on the ground is forgotten. He was working fine on the ground, lunging, backing, side stepping, engaging the hind quarters yeilding to pressure... UGH so disappointed right now....
     
    04-29-2011, 05:30 PM
  #30
Foal
Oh and just to let everyone know, his teeth were floated in Feb, the farrier said feet are fine and in good condition, the vet was out the weekend he dumped me and checked to make sure there were no problems with him and says he looks to be in great shape with no apparent health, soundness, or tenderness issues anywher. (Vet was there gelding another stud at the barn watched me get dumped so he felt bad for me)
     

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