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Bucked Off - 1, 2...3 times TODAY!!!!!

9K views 84 replies 26 participants last post by  TheLovedOne 
#1 ·
Gonna try to keep this short but I want all the important details in here, so it will likely end up a long "story"....

We sent Gracie back to her other owners today bc while riding Chili yesterday, my daughter was walking in the pasture and Gracie kicked her. Not hard but enough to cut and bruise her elbow and make her cry. Not enough to strike fear. Anyway.

I'd already decided to ride Chili today bc the weather promised to be gorgeous. WINDY but warm. When Gracie left, Chili whinnied quite a bit, which is unusual for her bc she is not very vocal.

MORE BACKGROUND: The other day, I tested out the English saddle and loved it. 2nd time I used it, not as much - it kept pinching my leg and I think it's bc I wasn't wearing high boots or anything to protect my lower leg(?) No problems riding Chili bareback after taking the saddle off (she seemed to have issues with it that day). Western saddle again and she bucked during a canter. Assume it's because the saddle is a little long for her short back. But I was able to measure the Circle Y saddle her prev owner (we're becoming friends) uses and this saddle I'm testing out is actually 2" shorter, so didn't think that was the problem. Chili had never been ridden in a back cinch, so thought maybe that might be the issue, so loosened it.

BACK TO TODAY:
Tacked her up - Western. Back cinch on but loose - enough so that it should not have been rubbing but snug enough that it was useful. Didn't ride her in the arena like I usually do, this time took her around the pasture. W/T fine. Canter - 2 strides and as soon as I applied pressure to steer her into a turn, she bucked me off. I was a little surprised, my pride was hurt but I got back on - well, was going to but thought maybe the cinch was too tight so I loosened it. This time, no rubbing at all, just there. I walked her to the other pasture and stopped at my hubby who'd come outside. He saw the back cinch, and took it all the way off - Only reason I'd even left it attached was bc I didn't have anywhere to put it at the time. Stupid. But anyway. Cinch off. Walked her to the front gate and felt like the saddle was slipping so hopped off and adjusted it. Opened the gate and walked her into the corn field. She's a little barn sour and I thought if we were a little away from the house/barn, she'd feel better.

She kept wanting to GO, I had to keep the reins tight and hated doing it. She's in the bosal - I don't like to apply any pressure unless I'm asking her to do something. Any release of the pressure today, though, seemed to give her the go-ahead to trot. Because I wanted to see the terrain, make sure there were no holes in the filed, etc, I kept her at a walk. She blew her nose, made funny noises (normal for her but funny nonetheless) and we walked the entire row - about 2 football fields?

Get to the end and I turn her around, start walking back. This is all a straight shot - a good distance from the house/barn but not too far away. About 1/4 of the way down the row, I gave her the go ahead to trot. She did fine. No urging needed to canter and she was fine - 2 strides in, she charges into a full gallop without me saying ok. I pull back just a little to get her to slow back to a canter instead of running and the moment I did, she bucked and off I went. How my face hit, then my backside then my head, is beyond me, but that's how I remember it. Scared the piss outta me bc when I got up, I couldn't walk straight. No double vision or blurriness, but man, was I loopy!!!! Hubby scared the crap outta him - he just saw loose horse and took off runnin' toward me. I yelled, told him I was fine (I had no idea if I was or not TBH) and to get Chili (who'd crossed the road and was in the neighbor's yard. He caught her.

I managed to walk back to the barn and he met me with her in tow. We walked back to the pasture and I made sure he understood that as shook up as I was and as upset as he was, I STILL Had to get back up or she'd think it was ok to keep doing it. This time, however, I untacked her and rode her bareback. Between the time she threw me and the time I got back up, was probably 20 minutes? Maybe a little less.

Walked her around a few minutes to get a feel for her and to let her know I was in control (so I thought), trotted her. Smooth - I love her trot. Asked her to canter - 2 strides and WHAM, I hit the ground again.

Now. The following was instinct and if I made a mistake, I dunno. The people I've been around recently all seem to employ this method and I was literally at my wit's end trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with her! She's NEVER done this except for the ONE time she bucked in that saddle.... I treated the bosal just like a stud chain or rope halter. Stood in front of her and yanked down on the reins about 3 times. Told her this was NOT the way she was supposed to act and to stop it. Put the reins over her head, walked her back to the mounting block (which by the way, she has been doing GREAT at!!!) and got back on again. (with effort as my body was whooped!)

Walked. Slow trot. and I just gave her a little lead, no urging for the canter and she bucked again. This time, I figured if her head was up, she couldn't get her butt up too, so I pulled back on the reins enough to get her head up just before I went over - and ended up practically sitting on her head!! But she didn't get me off.

I then took her around the pasture for about 30 minutes at made her walk the entire time. She kept tugging - ready to go. I had to keep the reins tight. I HATE that.

I dunno if it was me keeping at it, the yanking incident or her giving up but although she fought my hands, she listened to EVERYthing I did. Instead of trying to go to the barn, she easily moved to the right. Instead of side stepping the mud (she hates it), she went through it without hesitation. Instead of trying to cut across the pasture, she listened and walked up, right, across, right, repeat.... Even when I took her back to the barn and she wanted to trot, I kept her at a walk and we went right past the barn - no problems.

So.

Nothing broken. But my hands are sore, I had a slight headache (gone now!), bruised below my knee, my neck is murder, my lower back is murder and face hurts - other than that, I'm wonderful. LOL

CHILI, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I called the previous owner. Told her what happened. She said even when she broke her, she didn't buck or rear.

I wonder if it's the saddle and now that she's bucked in the saddle at a canter (or faster), she's "thinking" she should buck at a canter, regardless of how she's ridden????

I will not say I'm scared of my horse, bc I'm not. If it weren't windy at dark, I'd go out right now and ride her. However. I am leery of riding her at anything faster than a trot and PETRIFIED of being thrown again. I'm too old for this sh*t! Seriously.

So, I wonder, if it's not the saddle - is she ****** bc we took Gracie away or could it be because of the weather? It was windy earlier but not awful. I mean, we flew a kite in the wind without having to run with it to start it - and it was too windy to keep it afloat, it kept nose diving after a minute or so. NOW, it's REALLLLLLY windy. 40mph or more windy. Could she have seen it coming and didn't like it?

Could it be the bosal - could the pressure I'm applying at a canter be the issue? If so, wouldn't she STOP instead of buck or go faster???? I ask only because the 2 biggest bucks were when I tried to turn her while cantering and she bucked me off (1st time) and when she broke the canter and galloped and I pulled back. I know I didn't yank. I wasn't scared or frightened. I simply leaned back and pulled my hands into my body more. I'm sure a video would be most excellent for this but darned if I'm not happy there isn't one! I dont' think I could watch being tossed like a sack of potatoes onto the ground!

OR

Could she have just forgotten how to canter with a rider on board? In 2010, she'd only been ridden once. (other than me riding her around the yard for about 15 minutes, which I do not consider RIDING). This year... this past month, I've ridden her, in the arena or pasture, at least - 3 times/week. Sometimes more.

Her prev owner suggested putting her on a lunge line and loping her. But what happens if she bucks then? Do I lunge her with the saddle or without or both?

If I lunge her and it doesn't seem to fix the problem, I'm calling a trainer. I can't afford to be thrown and get injured worse than I am now. Bumps and bruises and a possible concussion are one thing. Broken bones are a different matter entirely.

Just FYI, she was GREAT on the ground - THE ENTIRE TIME. Except for when she threw me at the gallop, she stood right in front of me after dumping my *** onto the ground. Never rmoved. Just looked at me, like - "Hey, why are you down there?"

Suggestions/comments welcome. <ducking for yanking on her nose>
 
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#2 ·
**

I've also been out to the pasture several times this afternoon and evening to talk to her and I even groomed her. I wasn't going to give her grain tonight but thought she did such a good job AFTER the incident, that she deserved it. She's been fine. Her ground manners are wonderful...
 
#5 ·
Found this quote from Scout... awhile back on a different thread:
He'd apparently never cantered with a girth tightened before. He got a little excited in the trot and goosed up into a canter, and the girth caught him and he threw a little buck that I wasn't expecting, and I ate arena dirt. Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/how-many-times-have-you-been-46938/#ixzz1IXKUoele


Could it REALLY be that simple???? Prev owner rides with her girth loose-not tight. I remember mentioning this to her when I tested Chili out bc when I went to get up, the saddle slipped. She told me she was taught to ride that way. She also said Chili had a soft mouth (in a Jr Cowhorse bit?)

Could it REALLY BE THAT SIMPLE!?!?!!? Could that be why Chili turns her head to look at me when I'm cinching her up??? (like she did the one time she bit me - she bit when I was "prodding" a sore spot).

Could it REALLY really be that simple?

And if so, why did she buck at the canter bareback??????
 
#6 ·
First of all, I'm glad you were not hurt badly!

What do you mean by riding with LOOSE girth? :shock: That's asking for troubles in 1st place (unless you are VERY balanced and on well-trained horse). I can fit 2 fingers under my girth (either western or english) and that's it.

Frankly in situation like that horse clearly lets you know something is not right. And personally after the 2nd buck instead of being insistent and putting both of you at risk, I'd put her on lunge to see if she'd buck without the rider. To me it sounds like back issue, not girth or even training issue. Yanking on horse's nose with the bosal because you were ****** off is the biggest no-no. I doubt she understood what she did wrong, but you can make the horse head or bridle-shy this way. You should NOT work the horse when you are frustrated. They feel and pick on our feelings (with that being said I do get frustrated at times too, but trying to keep it under control). Instead just get off and make it work on ground.
 
#7 ·
When she told me she rode that way I had the same expression!!

I honestly thought she was just ... I don't know what I thought. From everything we'd been told about her, from riding her even, she'd never offered to buck. Except the day I bought her, with me on board - but we all attributed that to not having been ridden in a while. Why they thought to tell me this AFTER I got on her - :SHRUG:

I don't know what to think about not getting back on vs just lunging her. I suppose if I think about it, work is work, regardless of whether or not I'm mounted or on the ground. But I've always been taught to get back up.

If it's her back - wouldn't she have a problem walking/trotting?

TBH, I wasn't ******. In fact, the whole time, I've been worried that there was something wrong - worried that I'm doing something wrong - worried that we just aren't a good fit together (I've said for awhile that I think she hates me!) I never ever ever would've done something like that had I not been around several different horse people ("been around horses all my life and you can't let them get away with...." kinda people) and while I do not wholeheartedly agree with the method - I have seen first hand how it has worked. HOWEVER, this is the first time I've ever implemented it. The previous owner even suggested to use a stud chain while lunging her and if she bucks while lunging to give it a snap. I couldn't - I'd be terrified of breaking her nose!!!!

I don't know what to do or what to think. Yanno, I was gonna say that it has only happened since I've used this western saddle but now that I'm thinking back to trying out the other saddles, she did it with each of them too, just not as severely and I was able to stay seated. In fact, the only other time she's gone faster than a canter was in the barn owner's saddle (too small) and I remember that gut wrenching feeling of "oh ****e, I'm not gonna be able to stop her" moment.

If it's her back, who do I turn to first?
 
#11 ·
If it's her back, who do I turn to first?
Chiropractor, some time off, and saddle fitter to be 100% positive it's not because of the saddle (or at least make lots of pics and post it for opinion on fit).
 
#8 ·
Horses aren't nasty/naughty for the sake of it. It sounds to me like your horse has a serious back issue. I would get an osteopath out to her as soon as possible.
It's one thing to be bucked off because of a young horse's exuberance, but to be bucked off three times during one session, to my mind, is that your horse was trying to tell you something and you weren't listening to her.
The thing, is that it ISN'T easy to listen to a horse and to interpret what he's trying to say!
I would definitely try lungeing your horse without a saddle. I don't know anything about Western saddles as I ride English, but if they are anything like English saddles then you need to ensure that it is a perfect fit for your horse. Saddles can pinch, rub, slip, move around and this can cause pain, fear and soreness. Obviously you know this already! Can you get a master saddler out to check your saddle fitting?

I hope that you find out the cause of this and, in the meantime, stay safe!
 
#9 ·
Yoshi - Luv the new name btw! :)
We live in the middle of nowhere. I'm lucky we have a farrier! There is one vet and he makes "housecalls" once a week and I didn't like him for my dogs but it doesn't look like I'll have much of a choice. I do not think there is a saddle fitter anywhere near here....

I honestly cannot remember if I attempted to canter in the English saddle I have (currently testing it out too) and TBH, I'm petrified to try!

I have done so much research to make sure the saddle fits.... My biggest concern with this one is that it looks a little long, but it's 2" shorter than the saddle that the prev owner used on her (I measured them both).

My hope is that we can figure it out because I love Chili. I do not want to hurt her and have tried everything I know to do what is right for her... I just didn't want her to think I was afraid by not getting back up.
 
#12 ·
Yoshi - Luv the new name btw! :)
:lol: Thanks!! One of my cats is called Yoshi..... :wink:

If you can lunge your horse first without the saddle and then with to see if you can see a difference.
The other thing that comes to mind is, that even though your saddle is shorter than that of the previous owner, it could have been their saddle (not yours) which has caused some back pain and that your horse is reacting to your saddle which is now hurting her back, if this makes sense?

Some other factors to consider:

* If a horse is cooped up in a stable with no exercise for a few days, then he will be full of beans due to pent up energy

* High energy foods: look at what you're feeding your horse. Is she on haylege or hay? What's your spring grass like? Do you feed her oats?

* If she is newly broken in, then perhaps she is having trouble accepting the saddle and rider weight. The reaction is to buck to get rid of it.


I would eliminate all these things one by one and then, if the problem persists, try to get an osteopath if you can, to rule out physical pain.
Has she had her teeth checked recently? Teeth can cause all sorts of problems. She might have a wolf tooth which is hurting her due to the bit in her mouth.

Wouldn't it be so much easier if they could talk??!


[/LIST]
 
#10 ·
and wouldn't lunging her with the saddle alone be totally different than with a rider due to the weight?

What if it's from the bouncing I do in the saddle? This would atone for it happening some of the time and not everytime - as well as happening bareback and in the saddle. Her first stride is really rough - the 2nd and 3rd, I'm able to relax and move with her and then WHAM - she bucks. Makes sense, bc I'm sure my 175 lbs bouncing on her isn't cozy!!!
 
#14 ·
If it's a back/saddle issue she'll most probably will buck on lunge as well. As for being bouncy you can look into the shock-absorbing pad (Thinline). It's NOT cheap, but it worth it. I had similar issue several years back - my paint bucked on canter because of my bouncy bum :wink: . I did lots of research and ended up with Thinline contour (also one of the cheapest by Thinline).
 
#13 ·
Can you have someone else ride her and see how she goes for them?

Maybe you are inadvertently doing something or perhaps she has just learned that she can get you off now.

I had a horse once who did not like me and would throw me off. My husband (who couldn't ride) took him on a trail ride with no problems but I was never given a good ride. Sometimes a horse just doesn't like you.

Just throwing some ideas out there but if you aren't confident with her then maybe you shouldn't persist. You don't (as you said) want to get really hurt.
 
#15 ·
Just another thought: what are your legs doing when you canter? After a long break from riding, my lower legs developed a mind of their own and were all over the place. Whenever I cantered, they wouldn't remains still in place and because they moved around, they tickled my horse's sides, which he hated and would therefore buck.
 
#16 ·
Well, there are too many issues here to address in one sitting. The GOOD news --- you did not get hurt. The BAD news --- you have done a lot of things wrong. You have done what you would do to turn a horse into a bronc and give them great confidence that they can do it well.

First, you should first teach her to give you her head. People now call it a 'one rein stop'. Then, when a horse bows up and tries to buck, you can snatch their head around and stop them. To pull on both reins at the same time just gives them the leverage they need to launch you over their head. You become the object launched out of a sling shot. You will never be able to out-pull a horse using both reins, but you can make them give you their head to one rein, even if you are not a strong rider.

If you teach this horse to give you her head, you have a chance to stop her from taking up bucking seriously.

Now for all of the 'don'ts'.

1) Don't ever add a new piece of equipment or add a new scary lesson WHEN A HORSE IS FRESH. I have seen many very well trained horses have a come-apart when a back cinch was added when they were fresh. Ride one on a long ride and add a back cinch after you get home. Ride around with it on a tired horse and they learn to accept it right away. If I am going to teach a horse to accept a slicker being put on and off or accept dragging a log or tire with a rope or pony a horse where the rope can get behind them or under their tail, you can bet it will be at the end of a long ride. Their reaction to something new will be 'set' by their first experience with it. You can instill fear or confidence --- the choice is yours and depends how you introduce it.

2) If a horse is 'un-settled', upset (like yours was), has a history of being a little 'cold backed' (like yours does), acts a lot differently than it usually does, WARM THE HORSE UP. EITHER TROT AND THEN LOPE SEVERAL CIRCLES in a confining area, (where it is easier to pull a horse around and stop it) before heading out in the open where you are more at the mercy of what the horse decides to do. I will lope very 'fresh' horses or horses that I have not ridden in several weeks

3) If you are not a well balanced 'good' rider, you should warm an 'un-settled' horse on a longe line or in a round pen WITHOUT A SADDLE. Trainers call it 'knocking the air out of one'. It makes a really 'fresh' horse much more settled and not have as much 'feel good energy'. NEVER let a horse buck with a saddle. Some get it out of their system (as it is sometimes called) and other just get practice and learn to like it and do it more and better. So, I think it is very important to NOT let any horse practice bucking.

4) If your horse is stalled and has not been ridden in a while, TURN IT OUT to run and play BEFORE you saddle it up to ride. Remember that any time you are handling or attempting to control a horse, it should not play or behave in a uncontrolled way. That means that the longe line is not for running and playing -- it is for serious work. If you cannot control a horse on the end of a rope, you probably cannot control it very well under your saddle. It means you need to learn how to control a horse in all situations or your relationship is a ticking time-bomb.

I have to go now, but I need to show people how to put a type of 'over-check' on a horse that they can be ridden with. This stops a horse from lowering its head which it has to do to buck hard. I just have to get to an appointment now.
 
#17 ·
Here's what I would do. 1. check saddle fit.
2. if she's shod, check her shoes (I've had a horse get a sore back because he wasn't shod properly)
3.lunge her first w/o a saddle/ then with to see if you can see a difference in her movement.
4. find somone to ride her so you can watch(make sure to tell me about the bucking)
5. If no problems are found, then it could be just a habbit. sooo make sure you have plenty of control at a walk/trot, you need to be able to apply a ORS and come to a halt. when you ask her to lope/canter, start with a small circle(it'll be harder for her to buck in a small circle) if she bucks, pull her head up and round to your knee and make her work her hind end(disengage the hindquarters) really get after her. She needs to know this is not acceptable behavior, even if it is because of you bouncing. Do not let her lope/canter in a straight line till she stops bucking in the circle and you are mostly positive you can trust her not to buck. How I do this is start small every time, the longer there is no bucking slowly make your circle bigger, if she stays good (not bucking) then try to straighten her out,but be ready to bring her to a stop and disengage her hindquarter, and get after her if she bucks. repeat as necessary.
 
#18 ·
She could also have been pissy because Gracie left - her calling out was a pretty good indication she was upset. Some horses also just don't behave when it's windy. My mare is fine with it, but daughters Paso mare is impossible when it's windy - even on the ground. You can watch her go insane when she's in the pasture when there's a high wind. Yesterday she kept running in big circles. Being in heat didn't help any, either, but we had a real Oklahoma wind storm yesterday, and most of the horses were pretty silly.

Try lunging with each of your saddles and bareback and see how she does. She may not buck, but watch her ears and her tail - they can tell you a lot about how she's feeling.

You can also check her back yourself for tender/sore spots. Use firm (not real hard) pressure on either side of her withers and down on both sides of her spine. (sides - in the muscle - not on the spine itself) I rub in little circles using increasing pressure. Dancer loves it. The only spot on her that I found that was sore was (fortunately) not on her back, but on her right side near her flank. Actually, the trainer found it the hard way the other day - she was working Dancer on the ground and asked for a side pass, and pushed (not hard) with the but of her lunge whip, and Dancer kicked - first time we've ever seen her kick at anything. After making her move her feet to show that kicking was not allowed...ever, the trainer started checking out her side and back, and found the sore muscle. (another reason why we are keeping our riding sessions really short). It's much better now. Trainer thought she probably just rolled funny and strained or pulled a muscle. Dancer's been enjoying the massages on that sore muscle!
 
#19 ·
You mention that your new saddle is 2" shorter than the one she was ridden in. Maybe, just maybe it is too short and when you get on her, your added weight is putting pressure on her kidneys and it is hurting her. maybe the saddle is too short on her back.
I would lunge her without the saddle first and see how she behaves. Then lunge her with the saddle and see what happens. If she is fine without, then bucks with it on, I would suspect its the saddle putting pressure on her back and she is painful.
 
#20 ·
Different gaits stress different parts of the body. The canter is the only gait with an odd number of beats, so a lot of problems come to a head at the canter. A horse could very well be fine at the walk and trot, and blow up at the canter. I've known a few horses to tell their rider they hate their saddle at a canter - an old friend of mine used to dread trying a new saddle on her mare fir that reason - she would lunge wtc, ride fine wt and the canter was the defining gait. It cam also be a downhill gait for some horses, depending on their conformation, so a wither-sore horse might be exacerbated at the canter.
In short, lots of problems can arise at the canter and no other gait due to the movement involved.
Really glad you're ok!!
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#21 ·
I agree with the others on saddle fit but the biggest cause may be your riding. If you bounce you are slamming down on her back with every stride, added to tension from the bosal (which is designed to be used with a loose rein) & bucking results. I don't know how you ride but most people who bounce tend to keep the reins tight & grip with their lower legs, which no horse likes.
I would not speed a horse up heading towards home, especially one with control issues.
As she never bucked before & she does with you even bareback your riding may be the cause. Maybe have someone video you & study it to see if you see any rider errors.
Use a helmet & stay safe.
 
#22 ·
Wow! Where to start... This will probably end up long.

The bucking: Even though you have been riding her often, you say it's usually been in the arena. When she bucked you off you were outside, it was warming up and it was breezy/windy. It's springtime, and horses get frisky/spunky. They've been couped up during the winter, and kind of get like us with cabin fever. They get a "WooHoo" feeling when they get to canter. When horses buck, they can stretch out.

It could be other problems too. It could be a problem with her back but I wouldn't be to quick to call a vet or chiropractor. It could be a problem with the saddle but she probably would have acted out at walk and trot too. It could be the back cinch, but I doubt it since you took it off. It could be that she was throwing a tantrum because she didn't want to work or she wanted to take off and you wouldn't let her.

What I would do with her is take her back in the arena and ask her to to transition through walk, trot and canter. Or you could lunge her with and without the saddle and the same with the cinch. Eliminate different factors. She may buck again at the start of the canter but try to push her through it.

If she has used a bit before, which I think you said she had, I would used it until you get this worked out. I don't think the bosal is a problem, but you'd have more control with the bit. You can go back to the bosal when she starts responding better.

Her wanting to go faster than you do: Instead of keeping pressure to hold her back, do one rein stops or make her go in circles. Then go back to what you were doing at first and repeat if she tries again. They can learn to brace against the steady pressure, learn to avoid it and go faster.

English saddle pinches your legs: They will do that, so either wear tall boots or use half chaps.

Yanking on the bosal: It may not have been the best thing to do, but it happened. I don't think it was the worst either. At least it wasn't a bit in her mouth. I really don't think it would make her head shy unless you do it often. I will admit, I had done it with a bit, not real hard but I regretted it immediately. It's not always so easy to keep our emotions in check. I do think making them work and work hard is the best reprimand. I do think it was enough to let her know that you are her leader still since she listened to you afterward.

Getting back on or working on the ground: Even if you don't get back on after you come off, as long as she gets worked, she's not getting away with it. If she was to get untacked and put away, then she is getting away with it. You can work her on the ground and then either get back on, preferably, or not.

In my opinion, it was just the springtime jitters that got her to buck you off. I hope you get it worked out. I also had two horses buck on me this weekend. One was when I asked for the canter on our 4 y.o. gelding. I was expecting it because he's been spunky in the paddock. The other was on our 'seasoned' mare, 11 y. o. She wanted to open up and I wouldn't let her. I had her do a few tight circles and asked her to walk again and she was fine. It's just that time of year.
 
#23 ·
I have no idea how to "quote" and respond to each one of these without making multiple posts, so I used notepad to copy/paste and respond and then pasted here....My responses are all in bold.

YOSHI:
The other thing that comes to mind is, that even though your saddle is shorter than that of the previous owner, it could have been their saddle (not yours) which has caused some back pain and that your horse is reacting to your saddle which is now hurting her back, if this makes sense?
- Doubtful as the saddle she has is a Circle Y and the one I am testing is a noname brand.
* If she is newly broken in, then perhaps she is having trouble accepting the saddle and rider weight. The reaction is to buck to get rid of it.
- She is not newly broken in but has been difficult "refreshing"

Just another thought: what are your legs doing when you canter?
In the saddle, I suck. Period. I admit it. Bareback, however, I ride fairly well. It's because EVERY bit of riding I've done has been primarily bareback. Or English. I don't *think* my legs are floppin' around.

MAKIN TRACKS:
Can you have someone else ride her and see how she goes for them?
- Am trying to do that now, especially by the previous owner (she is becoming a friend!) to see how she acts for her. If not, I know a few other people who might be able to check her out for me.

Maybe you are inadvertently doing something or perhaps she has just learned that she can get you off now.
- I dunno which of those bothers me more!!!

I had a horse once who did not like me and would throw me off. My husband (who couldn't ride) took him on a trail ride with no problems but I was never given a good ride. Sometimes a horse just doesn't like you.
- An ongoing fear. Chili is my first horse. I have thought several times that I should sell her/trade her and get something with more time under saddle. But I FEEL that we will work it out, and so, I keep at it.

Just throwing some ideas out there but if you aren't confident with her then maybe you shouldn't persist. You don't (as you said) want to get really hurt.
- It's not so much that I'm not confident with HER as I'm not confident in MYSELF. I do, however, know my limitations. And I'm VERY persistent!!!

KITTEN VAL:
- Once we get this saddle thing figured out, I will prolly invest in a good pad anyway - thank you for the info! I do not like the one I have now. It's thick and - clunky?


CHERIE:
If you teach this horse to give you her head, you have a chance to stop her from taking up bucking seriously.

- I know the circle methods and employ them on Chili. I did not know about the ORS until I read TinyLiny's bucking thread from awhile back. I will employ it from now on. Makes sense that pulling back two handed will simply give them more leverage. Obviously, I did not think about it yesterday!

Now for all of the 'don'ts'.

1) Don't ever add a new piece of equipment or add a new scary lesson WHEN A HORSE IS FRESH.
- Define "FRESH". I didn't know she'd never had the back cinch used previously until AFTER I'd already used it the last time with this saddle and she did fine (except at a canter) so didn't think it would be a problem using it again - just loosely. I will obviously, not be using it again. But. To clarify. She had the back cinch on the FIRST time she bucked, not afterwards.

2) If a horse is 'un-settled', upset (like yours was), has a history of being a little 'cold backed' (like yours does), acts a lot differently than it usually does, WARM THE HORSE UP. EITHER TROT AND THEN LOPE SEVERAL CIRCLES in a confining area, (where it is easier to pull a horse around and stop it) before heading out in the open where you are more at the mercy of what the horse decides to do. I will lope very 'fresh' horses or horses that I have not ridden in several weeks
- I ride her at least every other day - even if for only short periods of time. I just rode her the day before yesterday - not very long mind you, but I rode her. SHE DOES NOT (normally) HAVE THIS PROBLEM WHEN I RIDE BAREBACK. Yesterday was a clear exception. I had just ridden her the day before, so I didn't consider her "fresh".....

3) If you are not a well balanced 'good' rider, you should warm an 'un-settled' horse on a longe line or in a round pen WITHOUT A SADDLE. Trainers call it 'knocking the air out of one'. It makes a really 'fresh' horse much more settled and not have as much 'feel good energy'. NEVER let a horse buck with a saddle. Some get it out of their system (as it is sometimes called) and other just get practice and learn to like it and do it more and better. So, I think it is very important to NOT let any horse practice bucking.
- Is it your opinion that this should be done prior to EVERY ride, no matter how long or short and if so, for how long and until when? Good advice on the bucking with the saddle - make sense.

DEE:
- Gracie leaving I'm fairly certain had a lot to do with it. Thinking on the entire situation, I also believe the wind had something to do with it. Perhaps I wasn't as clear about the weather. It was beautiful outside (to housebound humans who hate cold weather!) but it was very windy. Burn ban windy. Today, is worse. So even though it's not raining, I'm not going to work her.

Try lunging with each of your saddles and bareback and see how she does. She may not buck, but watch her ears and her tail - they can tell you a lot about how she's feeling.
I have lunged her before and she gets this wild eyed look. I know she's been lunged before - I've seen them lunge her.


- She seems to be tender when I brush her back with more effort (getting all those darned winter fuzzies off is difficult!!) but I dunno if it's tender or if she has the same "syndrome" my dogs do.... Yanno when you scratch that one spot that makes them scratch really fast with their leg? Same concept except she doesn't scratch, she kinda bends her back a little - dips it. Doesn't eyeball me like she's gonna bite, doesn't swish her tail like she's gonna kick. Just dips a little. So, I don't know.

NATISHA:
As she never bucked before & she does with you even bareback your riding may be the cause. Maybe have someone video you & study it to see if you see any rider errors.
- She only bucked with me bareback this one time. She's never offerd to buck previously to that with me riding bareback. But then, I've also not attempted to canter with her bareback. I am riding in rhythm with her strides when she trots. Barely any bounce at all (unless she is at a faster trot and then slows to a rougher trot, then I mgiht get a li'l bouncy for a second). She has, for the most part, a VERY smooth trot. It's one of the things I love about her!

USANDPETS:
The bucking: Even though you have been riding her often, you say it's usually been in the arena. When she bucked you off you were outside, it was warming up and it was breezy/windy. It's springtime, and horses get frisky/spunky. They've been couped up during the winter, and kind of get like us with cabin fever. They get a "WooHoo" feeling when they get to canter. When horses buck, they can stretch out.
- My theories too.

What I would do with her is take her back in the arena and ask her to to transition through walk, trot and canter. Or you could lunge her with and without the saddle and the same with the cinch. Eliminate different factors. She may buck again at the start of the canter but try to push her through it.
- Push her through it on board or on the ground? If I take her into the arena, I risk the same issue of being thrown as I do in the open - if she canters and bucks, I'm (more than likely) gonna be thrown. Not looking forward to that!! It's my only "fear" at this point.

If she has used a bit before, which I think you said she had, I would used it until you get this worked out. I don't think the bosal is a problem, but you'd have more control with the bit. You can go back to the bosal when she starts responding better.
- She has had a bit. We've tried several on her. I was going to use a Snaffle until I got the bosal. Since the bosal has worked VERY well, I decided to forgo the Snaffle. I've been riding her in the bosal for 2 wks every day/every other day. I have less control over her with the bits we've used than with the bosal. BUT. I can try again.

English saddle pinches your legs: They will do that, so either wear tall boots or use half chaps.
- UGH! :)


When the wind dies down - I will work her, rain or not. Unfortunately, we do not have an indoor arena. As I've said before, the "arena" I have is actually just a smaller, almost perfectly rectangular fenced pasture. Anyway. I feel better having posted all my bad things and knowing there is help!!! THANK YOU ALL for responding. If anyone else has further input, feel free to post!
 
#26 ·
- Doubtful as the saddle she has is a Circle Y and the one I am testing is a noname brand.
Brand of saddle doesn't = good or poor fit. You can have an extremely high-quality saddle that doesn't fit and a cheapy one that does.

If the saddle you are using doesn't fit her, that could explain the bucking. If you use a narrow saddle on a wide horse, it will pinch them and they will let you know that "hey, this HURTS!!".
 
#25 ·
Personally I think you need to do a lot more time on the ground. I would take her out today in the wind but only ground work until she's calm. The minute she's calm is the minute she gets to go back to her field.

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=985920#ixzz1IZbgZ9VL

I would but this wind isn't normal wind. It's a storm and I can't go out there with my 3 yr old daughter in it. :(
 
#29 ·
I would but this wind isn't normal wind. It's a storm and I can't go out there with my 3 yr old daughter in it. :(
Horses are still animals. I've seen even very well trained horses to go bananas in strong wind despite all desensitizing. :) Just keep yourself safe (although riding is not very safe to start with lol!).

If you gonna buy a different pad I'd suggest to do more research before you spend the money. There are so many options on market right now. Up to the point you can make a saddle to fit better with shims and inserts.
 
#30 ·
You said you have been riding her consistently so you don't consider her "fresh". For me, being ridden everyday or not has nothing to do with how fresh a horse is or isn't. I had a gelding that was ridden every single day and he was "fresh" the first 15 minutes of every ride. I lunged him in the round pen with lots of direction changes to get all that energy moving in a positive direction.

Are you connecting your back cinch to your front cinch? If not, that back cinch is going to slide back and become a bucking strap. I would lose the back cinch all together. Unless you are working cows or doing some serious arena work (rollbacks, sliding stops, etc...) you won't really need the back cinch anyway. It is an easy variable to rule out, too, as you try to figure out what is triggering these bucking episodes.

I would have her vet checked. I don't know how old she is, but she may not be fit enough or strong enough at the moment to balance herself and you at the canter. You have already said you aren't balanced. In my humble opinion, you shouldn't be asking her to lope until YOU can stay balanced. I'd stick to trotting over poles to help her get into shape before asking her to lope.

Best of luck to you, and I am glad you weren't seriously hurt. :wink:
 
#31 ·
Oh I didn't realize it was a storm LOL. Well in that case I would stay inside where it is warm and safe. As far as the saddle goes have you tried the sheet test? This is where you lay a sheet on a dirty horse, put the saddle right over it and get on the horse. Then get off the horse, untack, carefully remove the sheet and examine the dirt imprints. Look for any dark areas that might indicate pressure points. The dirt should be evenly spread across the area of contact.

It that looks good it probably isn't saddle fit IMO but sometimes horses do buck because it feels different in the different gaits as someone else said. There's an interesting article I found which discusses some of Temple Grandin's theories from her book you might find interesting:

Heart and Desire: Secretariat and Temple Grandin
 
#38 ·
Oh I didn't realize it was a storm LOL. Well in that case I would stay inside where it is warm and safe. As far as the saddle goes have you tried the sheet test? This is where you lay a sheet on a dirty horse, put the saddle right over it and get on the horse. Then get off the horse, untack, carefully remove the sheet and examine the dirt imprints. Look for any dark areas that might indicate pressure points. The dirt should be evenly spread across the area of contact.

It that looks good it probably isn't saddle fit IMO but sometimes horses do buck because it feels different in the different gaits as someone else said. There's an interesting article I found which discusses some of Temple Grandin's theories from her book you might find interesting:

Heart and Desire: Secretariat and Temple Grandin
Without looking at the above link, tell me - How does an Autistic woman have anything to do with the greatest race horse ever???
 
#32 ·
A lot of horses have had sore backs and heavier riders and DON'T BUCK! Your horse has an attitude problem. My husband is dealing with a bucker now. His horse bucks when she is spooked. I am not saying that is your horses problem but far too often people mammby pammby with supplements and chiropractors and so on. If you are going to spend money on fixing the problem (and I think you should for safety) spend it on a really well respected trainers evaluation. They can say if it is you. the saddle, the horses back, ect. It is soooo worth it if you want to keep this horse and not get hurt. There's my 2 cents for free...lol
 
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