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Bucking Non Stop!

This is a discussion on Bucking Non Stop! within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        01-06-2008, 06:59 AM
      #11
    Weanling
    What is he like on the ground, when you are not doing anything ie lunging?
         
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        01-06-2008, 07:14 AM
      #12
    Trained
    Hiya

    This is conjunction with your previous thread about having trouble lunging makes me think that there is a pain issue involved especially if he is not doing these things when you arent asking him to do any work.

    I would seriously suggest at this point that you get a chiro or vet out to have a look at him. If pain is the problem then that can be sorted. If he is just being a little snot you need to go back to basics like what was spoken about in the previous lunging thread. IF he is playing up due to lack of respect for you, you need to get that respect or things will get worse and I fear for your safety. It already sounds as though things are worse than when you first posted your issues with him.

    If you go to the frank bell site www.horsewhisperer.com and you can order a free dvd from them that will give you the basics you need to start getting some respect from your horse. Although a full frank bell or parelli, clinton anderson or marv walker package would be best, some people just can't afford those things and a little info to get your started can be invaluable.

    All the best and let us know how things go
         
        01-06-2008, 10:58 AM
      #13
    Started
    I agree with having a chiro. Out and your vet if that doesn't help. His attitude could very well be due to pain.

    If you rule out pain, then it seems he's just testing your leadership. Sometimes we do things to horses that they hate, like micromanaging them, giving them mixed cues, being too aggressive, being unfair, etc. WITHOUT realizing it. This horse, to me, sounds like the type of horse (if he's NOT in pain) who uses his size to intimidate. We can't be stronger then the horse, but we CAN be smarter in our strategies.

    This all starts right when you go to get him from the stall/pasture. Good horsemanship doesn't start when you put the halter on or start riding. It starts from the moment your horse sees you. Does he look at you with his ears full forward, eager to come out? Or does he pin his ears or ignore you completely? These are the things you need to pay attention to. Respect his thresholds as you approach him. If he turns even 1 ear away from you STOP. Wait until he pricks it forward then approach. If he even turns his head away from you stop. If he's in his stall, DO NOT go in. Open the door some and cause him to come to you. If he's ignoring you, use a rope to lightly flick him on the leg or hindquarters. When he acknowledges you, stop and smile. The idea here is to get him CURIOUS about you. Then you have him metally engaged.

    Horses like this are usually very sensitive to suggestions. If not, they have been dulled. They're very observant and can tell your weak spots. When you ask him to lunge, try to be very soft but very clear about what you want. See how LITTLE it takes to do something. If at any time he pins his ears at you, charges, etc BACK HIM UP until the look on his face changes! You can do this by walking towards him, waving the lunge line and whip back and forth in front of you. When his expression softens, stop and let him wait a loooong time. Look for his eyes blinking, licking and chewing, etc. Invite him in to you and rub him for awhile. Then continue. When he acts that way he's saying "I'm alpha, you're just a wimp, and you aren't worthy of my attention!" So now you have to out smart the smarty! This kind of horse is constantly plotting so you need to be able to redirect him in a nano-second when he plays up.

    As for bucking while under saddle, I would ditch the spurs and whips. This kind of horse will retaliate against forceful things like that and the bucking could escalate, or worse. Again, if you can 100% rule out pain, saddle fit, etc. then here is what I would do. The bucking under saddle is just a unwillingness to go forward. You know where that starts? ON THE GROUND. If he doesn't go forward willingly and softly on the ground, there is a high probability that he isn't going to want to go forward under saddle as well. So get it good on the ground before you mount up. If that means not riding for a couple sessions, then that's ok. Take the time to get things right. While in the saddle, again, see how LITTLE it takes to get him to go and to slow. If he bucks at any time, ride it out and keep asking but don't get aggressive. You need to out persist him, not punish him. The more forceful you get, the more forceful he will get. When he does as you please release all pressure and praise the heck out of him! Give him a rest to let him know without any doubt that THAT was what you wanted.
         
        01-06-2008, 01:18 PM
      #14
    Weanling
    Re: Bucking Non Stop!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CambriaStables
    Someone at the barn said that I might want to have the chiropracter come out and look at him. Does that seem like it would be a good idea??
    I agree with that. Chiropracters can work miracles - litteraly.
         
        01-06-2008, 06:44 PM
      #15
    Foal
    Wow you guys have soo many good ideas.spirit horse you seem like you know amazing things. I am going to try everything everyone suggested. My trainer is so against being nice and stuff like that which sometimes makes me feel bad when I do the things she tells me. She thinks that it would be a waste of her money, time and also the vets time for him to come out and see jeffrey.. and he's not my horse so I can't go and get the vet myself. Also answering sparky's question. On the ground just walking him he is pretty much fine. Lunging he is ok one direction but the other direction is horrible.... today I had a lesson and lunging in the beggining was a little ruff and it doesnt help when you have someone like me who is way un cooridinated lol trying to teach a horse to lunge properly. It just doesnt mix well but towards the end of the 20 mins I was lunging him he started to do what I asked and trot around in a nice quick pace that I wanted him to go. Then when I got on him he started doing his little bucking fits and my trainer just said you can't let him go anywhere but forward you need to kick and practicaly beat him with the lunge whip. Then I asked her if she could go over and look at his back to see if she thinks he has anything wrong and of course she said no nothings wrong.... =[ so I got back on and he was still doing it. He would go forward a couple strides then he would pick places to just stop and buck... So my trainer put me on the lunge line while I was on him and he was fine. Then I went back out on the rail and he was doing the bucking thing again.. I tryed the tight circles like someone suggested and that didnt work either...
    Then the funniest thing was when my trainer called her trainer mike to see if he could come out and see if he had any suggestions. (jeffrey doesnt like mike at all) when I first started riding jeffrey I had a couple of lessons with mike and he did a great job of picking out what I could do to get jeffrey to move and look better.. as soon as she got off the phone with mike jeffrey was actualy kinda doing what I wanted him to. Idk if he heard her talking to him cuzz he was right there or he was just giving up. It was the strangest thing. So after that I was doing walk to trot, halt to trot transitions and with a couple of bucks here and there but at the end of my lesson he was going around fine. Im just affraid that he's not going to stay like that for long. And man was he Sweatyy ahha.
         
        01-07-2008, 08:35 PM
      #16
    Foal
    Ok so for an UPDATE!!

    Today I took some treats out to the pasture to get jeffrey. I walked out there close enough to him but still far that he couldnt reach me and I couldnt reach him. And I just stood there. At first he was being good then I got a little closer and he started doing this little intimidating like jump thing towards me slightly. So I just stood there. Once he came up to me I gave him some treats and just stood there petting him. I clipped the lead rope and we walked around the pasture for a bit. I stopped, and backed him a couple of times. Backing isnt very good yet. He will do one step then pins his ears and bites my sweatshirt. When he does that I just say NO but he still does it. Am I not doing something right. Or should I try something else??? Ok so after that I took him out of the pasture.
    Then we took a little walk down the barn drive way but we didnt go all the way close to the main rode. When we were walking down he would stop and look around.. What should I do when he does that?? I think he is semi improving but there are a few things that he still needs work on. Tell me what you guys think! It would be amazing!!
         
        01-07-2008, 09:27 PM
      #17
    Foal
    It is ok for a horse to stop and look around. They feel the need to know what is around them and that is fine. Sometimes you just need to take a second and let them look around. However, If he stops and won't move forward then I would suggest either using your lead rope to tap his rear end or a whip and just tap and if he doesn't go then tap harder until he goes. Put the pressure on him and when he is good release and let him know he was a good boy.

    I had a horse similar to yours except he was always like that from the get-go. He did get better once he knew I wasn't going to take his crap. If he isn't in pain then when he bucks or rears just wait it out for him to stop and then tell him to move forward. He has to know that bucking and rearing isn't getting you off and it is only more work for him to do. He just wants the easy way out.

    I would have the chiro. Out for him. I have one out overy 90 days for my dressage horse and she performs so much better and is much happier.
         
        01-07-2008, 09:34 PM
      #18
    Foal
    Thanks BriLeigh for the reply. I was told by a previous reply not to use and form of hitting. But I guess I could try it. And I am still thinking about getting the chiro out but I ran it through with my trainer(also jeffrey's owner) and she said that its not worth the money. So idk. I don't really wanna believe her but its her decision.
         
        01-07-2008, 09:46 PM
      #19
    Foal
    I know that people say to not hit, but in reality if your horse is running all over you and isn't behaving you must do something to correct it that will get through to them. It is like a spank to a child. They are 10 times your size, I seriously doubt a little tap is going to hurt them. It is just a wake up call to remind them that they are not in control and it will tell them that they can't get away with it. There is nothing wrong with correcting a horse that way, because really you aren't going to be very successful any other way. Every time they misbehave you must correct them right away and get it through to them. That is why you continue to have problems.
         
        01-07-2008, 09:51 PM
      #20
    Foal
    BriLeigh. I guess that does make sence haha. I will def. Try that and I think that might help considering he is much stronger than I am.
         

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