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Bucking under Saddle

This is a discussion on Bucking under Saddle within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Horse bucking under saddle
  • Horses bucking quotes

 
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    06-24-2009, 03:52 PM
  #11
Green Broke
If you are sure the horse is NOT bucking because of pain, but is bucking because of irritation or spoiled[ness?], the first trick is to KEEP THEIR HEAD UP so they can't buck. Horses have to lower their heads to buck, so if you keep their heads UP, they shouldn't be able to. You can try [if you're desperate] useing an anti-grazing device, or attaching another pair of reins to the bit and looping them to the saddle horn, but I wouldn't reccommend it. Mostly I'de just work on keeping their head up with your own strength, being able to ride it out, and also being able to think quick enought to smack them on the butt RIGHT after they do it. When you smack them, turn them in a circle [one rein stop]. A circle is punishment--most people won't agree with that but would YOU like to walk in a circle all day? I wouldn't! Also, when you turn them in a tight circle, they can't do anything but turn--no bucking, no rearing, no galloping off, etc. Just act like nothing is going to happen. Be calm. Ride it out, but punish accordingly.
     
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    06-24-2009, 05:40 PM
  #12
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny06    
If you are sure the horse is NOT bucking because of pain, but is bucking because of irritation or spoiled[ness?], the first trick is to KEEP THEIR HEAD UP so they can't buck. Horses have to lower their heads to buck, so if you keep their heads UP, they shouldn't be able to. You can try [if you're desperate] useing an anti-grazing device, or attaching another pair of reins to the bit and looping them to the saddle horn, but I wouldn't reccommend it. Mostly I'de just work on keeping their head up with your own strength, being able to ride it out, and also being able to think quick enought to smack them on the butt RIGHT after they do it. When you smack them, turn them in a circle [one rein stop]. A circle is punishment--most people won't agree with that but would YOU like to walk in a circle all day? I wouldn't! Also, when you turn them in a tight circle, they can't do anything but turn--no bucking, no rearing, no galloping off, etc. Just act like nothing is going to happen. Be calm. Ride it out, but punish accordingly.
I have to kindly disagree with you. I have been on horses that can run through the bit in a circle (it was a ride!)...it was a morgan gelding...and also I have been on horses that buck without putting there head down. They can get more air getting there head down agreed but they can still buck without getting it down. Dirty I know, but I have seen it and been on it! I agree with everything else you said though, the be calm and act like your just out for a nice ride and hang on!
     
    06-24-2009, 05:58 PM
  #13
Foal
You need to first figure out why they are bucking and go from there. If it is pain then it needs to be eliminated. If it is fear it needs to be treated. If it is anger then it needs to be resolved. And if it is because of not wanting to respond then you need to make them want to. It sounds simple but the first step is always finding the problem. From there you want to try to solve it. There are a couple ways of solving the type of bucking out from not wanting to respond, one way is to work them hard (which I do not approve of but many people do) and then another way is to have them keep repeating what happened right before the buck until they can complete the task without bucking.
     
    06-25-2009, 12:29 AM
  #14
Green Broke
Don't forget that a lot of horses will "buck" out of excitement - but that's typically only a single occurance of kicking up the heels. My Arab mare still does it for first canter. When I ask for a canter and don't let her gallop, she'll give me a little crowhop to tell me she is not pleased but will do as I ask. Even on a loose rein, it's a single occurance, not an annoyed and frustrated fit.

It really depends on why a horse is bucking. I'm a bit of old school farm stock, so in the past, I'd pretty much just "ride the buck" out and have them figure out they weren't getting me off. This was exclusively for known buckers that had figured out they could dump a rider to get out of work. As soon as they were done having a fit, I put them to hard work. It worked pretty much every time and I rarely had a second occurance. I learned with my Arab gelding as a child that pulling him up from the buck just made him think he'd won - instead of being asked to move out, he was allowed to stop for a moment, even though I put him to work right after. So that's my personal theory. The day I was old enough and experienced enough to ride the crap out of him and make him WORK for his fit, he cut it out.

I don't like hitting buckers with crops because I don't think it accomplishes much. They're already having an enraged fit, and physical discipline tends to fuel the fire. Teaching them that nonesense anatics won't accomplish dumping a rider has always worked best for me.

Obviously I always look for saddle pain first, but most buckers I've ridden have just been smart enough to figure out they can dump you. Shay-las moms Quarab mare will ONLY buck on me if I ride bareback - she knows she can't win with the saddle, but she caught me off guard once cantering bareback and the sneaky witch piled me into a snowbank. It took a few more rides to teach her it was a one time occurance and she's a lot better now. Still have to stay on my toes though She knows the minute I stop paying attention and will take full advantage of it.
     
    06-25-2009, 03:22 AM
  #15
Foal
1. Saddle fit, teeth, bit
2. Lack of proper basic training
3. Rider error, imbalance,...
4. Pain (horse is "out" somewhere)

Find out what the problem is and fix that.

I've had horses come in for training who have bucked.

1 was due to being unbroke when the owner thought she'd bought a broke horse

Another was because the former trainer had tried to buck the horse out and caused the horse to go sour on pressure and being ridden because she refused to give in to the "buck em out" crap and ended up being seriously hurt = hated being ridden, resented being told to go forward...basically a lousy start from a piss-poor trainer

Another bucked because he was "lazy" and lacked a good go forward cue

Another bucked because he had low withers and preferred the (wide tree) saddle to be slightly farther back than normal

Another bucked because he was in pain thanks to being ridden for years as a dressage lesson horse and always cinched up hard and he was "out" somewhere and had scar tissue

Another bucked like mad because she had a cracked tooth and the bit hit it and she blew up

Another bucked because she had a green rider with lousy balance

Another bucked because she was rushed through her basic training

----

How did I fix these? Restarted everyone on the ground, then went back to the saddle. When I got in the saddle, there wasn't a reason for the buck anymore. For those who bucked out of pain...I got a massage therapist or chiropractor or acupuncturist or vet or dentist or....and the problem went away.

I don't believe in the word "stubborn." I think that simply means there's a breech in communication somewhere and the person hasn't gotten the point across well enough for the horse to accept it as a valid reason to respond without unwanted behavior.

I don't believe there are horses who just buck for bucking's sake. I know in rodeos they use flank straps and those horses learn to buck to get a release of pressure...when the rider falls off or jumps off = the release of pressure = bucking works to get a release of pressure.

As for the pony that bucks in the corner...without any real details or having seen it, I could only speculate that it's because the pony has bucked someone off there once before and he's learned that at that spot, he can get a release of pressure, so he bucks and the person falls off = release of pressure. Or he bucks and the rider at that moment stops asking the pony for whatever cue(giving the pony a release of pressure)...Also...the rider can actually "cue" the horse to buck at this spot if the rider is tensing up in anticipation of the buck.

It's like, when a person anticipates a horse to bolt and tightens up on the reins, this can actually cause the horse to bolt.

I strongly believe it's about proper use of pressure and developing timing for where to put the release of pressure.

If you put it in the "wrong" place (the horse doesn't know right or wrong) then that's what the horse learns...to do X to get a release of pressure.

X can be to give to pressure if the training is good enough, or X can be bucking if the training is lacking. I think that's all it comes down to (if pain isn't an issue)
     

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