Buying a horse that's right for you. - Page 11
 
 

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Buying a horse that's right for you.

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  • Right hock lipping
  • Why is my horse different since i got him home

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    06-01-2012, 10:44 AM
  #101
Weanling
I only paid $300 for my babydoll, but I ended up paying over $1,000 in feed bills and $1,000 in vet bills so far. She's perfectly healthy now, but she is due to have her shots again soon. But I cannot agree more. I have also put 90 days on her myself and I see an incredible totally different horse. It's amazing, only get a cheap horse if you have enough to a big feed and vet bill PLUS the time to put a lot of work on the horse, trust me.
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    06-07-2012, 06:24 PM
  #102
Foal
I can vouch on show horses only. Thrown by one that was awesome until something anything would make him freak out. But put him in a show ring with speakers and people and total chaos and he was like a lap dog. It is crazy the difference.
     
    06-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #103
Foal
I'm grateful to the OP for such an awesome post. Couldn't agree more with how well the points where made-bravo! Glad it was stickied.

I'm horseless now for a couple years..well, I had two over a 3yr period and both instances went bad. Would love some kind constructive tips as I've followed all of what the OP suggested.

First horse was a 12yr old qh that was both shown amy and youth in wp. He'd been trail ridden and though he was really too big for me, I loved him and we got a long well. My fault I let the BO talk me out of using a vet I liked for the pre-purchase (the horse was almost 12k) so I said I wanted to be there for the exam. He called to say the exam had already been done and that the horse passed with flying colors by a vet that is VERY well known in the area. Stayed there at his farm for 2mnths taking lessons and brought him home with the intention of continuing lessons. Long story short, another trainer pointed out he was off. MY vet did xrays, which I wanted done in the first place but got talked out of my the trainer whom I thought I could trust and found severe lipping in the right hock. I resold him back to the owner.

Second horse was bought from a man who was recommended to me by a friend. I took a very experienced friend with me who had started many horses as this one was young, about 2 1/2yr old. She thought him a good match with me, the other friend raved about this mans training ability and I could see how nice her gelding was that was trained by him. Also rode one of his mares who was awesome. I contracted 2mnths of training which would include lessons. After 6wks this horse still couldn't walk on a leadrope without dragging me, walking on me and giving me the playful nip/bite on the way. The trainer berated me for being impatient and I never got the lessons he promised. I took the horse out of there and put him with another gaited trainer who was strongly recommeded by the first friend. The trainer was an IJA judge and a member or FOSH. Long story short, in 3mnths I had been on his back once since she deemed me too scared to ride him (though I'd ridden him at the other trainers through the woods and down roadways..he was green but willing and smart) She also told me he had a split personality and that when he "talked to her" (yes, the horses could communicate and talk to her by mind reading..I kid you not) he was unhappy.

Sold him and waited for the dust to settle. By now, I'm out thousands of dollars and have a very unhappy husband. Fast forward a bit and I find a usdf gold medal dressage trainer. I purchased a tw mare from out of state that came with huge recommendation from a well known gaited clinician. I said I needed a child safe horse, I'd lost some confidence. He said it would be a perfect match. Got the horse home, fell in love but she had issues that deemed her dangerous for what I was wanting to do with her. This was determined after training with the dressage instructor for 18mnths..she trained 3x a week and I rode 4 to 6 times a week.

Gave that horse away..imagine the money lost. Looked at a friends qh mare. Quiet, steady is what she told me, just out of condition as she'd had a foal about a year prior. Brought the dressage trainer with me to evaluate the mare and the mare and I together. Big thumbs up, mare was quiet, laid back and seemed a great fit just needed a couple of months of conditioning and I'd take lessons to really get us clicking together. Quickly found this mare didn't like to be bridled, was a nervous horse and "needed more work than originally thought" A few more months would do it. After 6mnths the well known trainer said she'd need at least a year...so it went from a couple months of conditioning to almost a thousand dollars a month for board and her training..sold the horse back to the owner. By now, my mind is fried.

Contacted a friend who'd been in the entertainment business and was very involved with gaited horses http://www.maryrivers.com/Index.cfm Paid her to look at good prospects. Told her I needed a beginner safe confidence builder and that I'd put the horse in training with her as my daily rides would be around my neighborhood on the swale encountering motorcycles, dogs charging the fences, bikes, etc. She would also give me one lesson a week for free at training of 1k a month. She looked at several tw's, ssh and all were not suitable. This was over a period of 3 or 4 mnths..apx. I'd gone and looked at a paso that was 5yrs old, had been shown lightly and trail ridden. Quiet mare, laid back, well gaited and rode on your ring finger. Had Mary go up and ride her. She gave the stamp of approval, just loved her. Mary told me she had YEARS of experience showing paso's and has connections to a well known paso stallion out west. Remember, I've known this woman for years and even loaned her money when she was in dire straights. I thought we were close.

The day of purchase and vet exam, Mary came out with the trailer and brought her son Deke and his gf Stephanie. As the horse was being loaded Deke handed me a training contract. I said I thought Mary would be training the horse, not him. He said she would be, but he'd be doing the sacking out as Mary had tv gigs she needed to be on location for. She would however, be doing the majority of the training. I asked that the lessons be added to the contract. No pen was handy, they needed to leave as the horse was on the trailer and it would be added when we got to the farm.

Three months later and much conversation and concerns mentioned to Mary who worked with my horse and I twice, Deke told me the training was done, they needed stall space and she had to leave their farm. I went up to see her being ridden by Deke one more time. She now wouldn't pick her feet up..in fact, she hauled back on the lead rope and sat down in fear when I tried to lift her front foot. She lost her gait and was trotting, she wouldn't walk-period-she only would jig and either try and canter or do something between a gait, pace or trot. The well mannered quiet mare was gone. Look at Mary's qualifications..would I be wrong in trusting her?? Come to find out, after talking to the many many paso folks I know, Mary Rivers never showed pasos, they'd never heard of her. One woman knew her from the tw world where she allegedly had a reputation for being harsh. Deke told me that part of her sacking out was to hobble her and then put a flank strap on her, which explains alot of how she got to be so scared. Denny Chapman who is very well known is Mary's bf and he believes these training practices are useful. Google that name and you'll find a respectable trainer, announcer and performer.

So, after me being long winded for which I'm very very sorry, how do I find a trainer that is honest???? Who would think after reading Mary's resume' that she'd be so dishonest? How do I go about finding a person who isn't going to try and take advantage and just do their job? I'm not looking for the perfect horse, there isn't one! It comes down to what you can live with, just like finding that lifelong human companion. I have to be doing something really wrong and would like to fix it because I'm more miserable w/o a horse than I was with one but I'm scared to death I'm going to continue to make the same mistakes and put both myself and my husband through Hell. This last foray into crazy town with Mary cost me a lot of $$. Cost of horse $5500, training (if you can call it that) 3K. Ended up selling this mare for $3500. I left details out of the last dealings..way too much information and I feel guilty for this long rambling post. But seriously, how do I find somebody that is honest?? I'm HONEST!!!!

When I was selling the young kmh that had the split personality (eye roll) a young gal wanted him that had no experience but had a friend who would help her, I had to turn her away and wouldn't even let her come look. I had him advertised for 6k, but in good concience couldn't let her get in over her head..bad for her AND the horse, which is what I kindly told her.

So, if anyone has any suggestions, please be gentle and tell me what I could do differently. I love horses, riding and miss it so much but I don't trust myself to make a good judgement in either picking a horse or a qualified trainer.
     
    06-11-2012, 03:56 PM
  #104
Super Moderator
Buying the right horse

Ouch!!!
I know nothing about gaited horses but I'd think the same pretty much applies to them as anything else. I looked at so many horses when I wanted to get one to replace my retired girl last year one trainer I got involved with wanted to charge commission off the seller which said to me that she wasn't going to be negotiating for the best price and would be keen to push a sale. If you use a trainer for advice when you go to look at a horse then I'd always advise anyone to insist on them paying at an hourly or fixed rate for their services. Every horse I looked at needed dynamite to get it moving, I was saying that at my age (and all going rapidly downhill) that I didn't want anything particularly challenging but I didn't want something that made me feel that it wanted me to get off and carry it either, I'd been used to a mare that I just have to 'think' forward and she goes. I found a dealer - which horrified my vet as they 'buy from auctions' but he's been in business a long time and was offering a 'no questions asked return on anything you bought. The one I got did have some trust issues but nothing to worry me, she was just too robotised in what she did and after 6 weeks we were getting nowhere fast, they took her back no worries, I went over and tried 12 horses that he had that all would have done the job for me, nothing is perfect but the one I ended up with is getting there day by day, we bitch at each other then make up!!
After all your problems my advice to you right now would be to find a good riding school where you can have lessons, do some trail riding, maybe have a horse on a part lease basis and get some much needed confidence back before you part with any more of your hard earned cash
     
    06-11-2012, 04:07 PM
  #105
Green Broke
[QUOTE=jaydee;1542527]Ouch!!!
I know nothing about gaited horses but I'd think the same pretty much applies to them as anything else. I looked at so many horses when I dynamite to get it moving, I was saying that at my age (and all going rapidly downhill) that I didn't want anything particularly challenging but I didn't want something that made me feel that it wanted me to get off and carry it either, I'd been used to a mare that I just have to 'think' forward and she goes. I found a dealer - which horrified my vet as they


I was just trying to picture this
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    06-11-2012, 04:20 PM
  #106
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Horse    
I'm grateful to the OP for such an awesome post. Couldn't agree more with how well the points where made-bravo! Glad it was stickied.

I'm horseless now for a couple years..well, I had two over a 3yr period and both instances went bad. Would love some kind constructive tips as I've followed all of what the OP suggested.

First horse was a 12yr old qh that was both shown amy and youth in wp. He'd been trail ridden and though he was really too big for me, I loved him and we got a long well. My fault I let the BO talk me out of using a vet I liked for the pre-purchase (the horse was almost 12k) so I said I wanted to be there for the exam. He called to say the exam had already been done and that the horse passed with flying colors by a vet that is VERY well known in the area. Stayed there at his farm for 2mnths taking lessons and brought him home with the intention of continuing lessons. Long story short, another trainer pointed out he was off. MY vet did xrays, which I wanted done in the first place but got talked out of my the trainer whom I thought I could trust and found severe lipping in the right hock. I resold him back to the owner.

Second horse was bought from a man who was recommended to me by a friend. I took a very experienced friend with me who had started many horses as this one was young, about 2 1/2yr old. She thought him a good match with me, the other friend raved about this mans training ability and I could see how nice her gelding was that was trained by him. Also rode one of his mares who was awesome. I contracted 2mnths of training which would include lessons. After 6wks this horse still couldn't walk on a leadrope without dragging me, walking on me and giving me the playful nip/bite on the way. The trainer berated me for being impatient and I never got the lessons he promised. I took the horse out of there and put him with another gaited trainer who was strongly recommeded by the first friend. The trainer was an IJA judge and a member or FOSH. Long story short, in 3mnths I had been on his back once since she deemed me too scared to ride him (though I'd ridden him at the other trainers through the woods and down roadways..he was green but willing and smart) She also told me he had a split personality and that when he "talked to her" (yes, the horses could communicate and talk to her by mind reading..I kid you not) he was unhappy.

Sold him and waited for the dust to settle. By now, I'm out thousands of dollars and have a very unhappy husband. Fast forward a bit and I find a usdf gold medal dressage trainer. I purchased a tw mare from out of state that came with huge recommendation from a well known gaited clinician. I said I needed a child safe horse, I'd lost some confidence. He said it would be a perfect match. Got the horse home, fell in love but she had issues that deemed her dangerous for what I was wanting to do with her. This was determined after training with the dressage instructor for 18mnths..she trained 3x a week and I rode 4 to 6 times a week.

Gave that horse away..imagine the money lost. Looked at a friends qh mare. Quiet, steady is what she told me, just out of condition as she'd had a foal about a year prior. Brought the dressage trainer with me to evaluate the mare and the mare and I together. Big thumbs up, mare was quiet, laid back and seemed a great fit just needed a couple of months of conditioning and I'd take lessons to really get us clicking together. Quickly found this mare didn't like to be bridled, was a nervous horse and "needed more work than originally thought" A few more months would do it. After 6mnths the well known trainer said she'd need at least a year...so it went from a couple months of conditioning to almost a thousand dollars a month for board and her training..sold the horse back to the owner. By now, my mind is fried.

Contacted a friend who'd been in the entertainment business and was very involved with gaited horses http://www.maryrivers.com/Index.cfm Paid her to look at good prospects. Told her I needed a beginner safe confidence builder and that I'd put the horse in training with her as my daily rides would be around my neighborhood on the swale encountering motorcycles, dogs charging the fences, bikes, etc. She would also give me one lesson a week for free at training of 1k a month. She looked at several tw's, ssh and all were not suitable. This was over a period of 3 or 4 mnths..apx. I'd gone and looked at a paso that was 5yrs old, had been shown lightly and trail ridden. Quiet mare, laid back, well gaited and rode on your ring finger. Had Mary go up and ride her. She gave the stamp of approval, just loved her. Mary told me she had YEARS of experience showing paso's and has connections to a well known paso stallion out west. Remember, I've known this woman for years and even loaned her money when she was in dire straights. I thought we were close.

The day of purchase and vet exam, Mary came out with the trailer and brought her son Deke and his gf Stephanie. As the horse was being loaded Deke handed me a training contract. I said I thought Mary would be training the horse, not him. He said she would be, but he'd be doing the sacking out as Mary had tv gigs she needed to be on location for. She would however, be doing the majority of the training. I asked that the lessons be added to the contract. No pen was handy, they needed to leave as the horse was on the trailer and it would be added when we got to the farm.

Three months later and much conversation and concerns mentioned to Mary who worked with my horse and I twice, Deke told me the training was done, they needed stall space and she had to leave their farm. I went up to see her being ridden by Deke one more time. She now wouldn't pick her feet up..in fact, she hauled back on the lead rope and sat down in fear when I tried to lift her front foot. She lost her gait and was trotting, she wouldn't walk-period-she only would jig and either try and canter or do something between a gait, pace or trot. The well mannered quiet mare was gone. Look at Mary's qualifications..would I be wrong in trusting her?? Come to find out, after talking to the many many paso folks I know, Mary Rivers never showed pasos, they'd never heard of her. One woman knew her from the tw world where she allegedly had a reputation for being harsh. Deke told me that part of her sacking out was to hobble her and then put a flank strap on her, which explains alot of how she got to be so scared. Denny Chapman who is very well known is Mary's bf and he believes these training practices are useful. Google that name and you'll find a respectable trainer, announcer and performer.

So, after me being long winded for which I'm very very sorry, how do I find a trainer that is honest???? Who would think after reading Mary's resume' that she'd be so dishonest? How do I go about finding a person who isn't going to try and take advantage and just do their job? I'm not looking for the perfect horse, there isn't one! It comes down to what you can live with, just like finding that lifelong human companion. I have to be doing something really wrong and would like to fix it because I'm more miserable w/o a horse than I was with one but I'm scared to death I'm going to continue to make the same mistakes and put both myself and my husband through Hell. This last foray into crazy town with Mary cost me a lot of $$. Cost of horse $5500, training (if you can call it that) 3K. Ended up selling this mare for $3500. I left details out of the last dealings..way too much information and I feel guilty for this long rambling post. But seriously, how do I find somebody that is honest?? I'm HONEST!!!!

When I was selling the young kmh that had the split personality (eye roll) a young gal wanted him that had no experience but had a friend who would help her, I had to turn her away and wouldn't even let her come look. I had him advertised for 6k, but in good concience couldn't let her get in over her head..bad for her AND the horse, which is what I kindly told her.

So, if anyone has any suggestions, please be gentle and tell me what I could do differently. I love horses, riding and miss it so much but I don't trust myself to make a good judgement in either picking a horse or a qualified trainer.
That is so unreal to me!....You paid all that money for the horse and the training and ended up with nothing? You should have had an Olympian horse after all of that! I think they have definitely taken advantage of you. However, you should educate yourself on horse training and dealing with horses too to prevent this. Three of my horses were free and given to me and the last one I paid $400 for. My QH was given to me at 16, unbroke (didn't know that at the time I took her home) and she was my first horse. She is a crazy mare...scared of everything. After a couple of times of the previous owner visiting...I would get a little more of the truth out of her. She was told by her vet that her bloodline was crazy and that she would never ride her etc. I didn't care about any of the truths that the lady told me because I had already developed a relationship with the mare and knew how she was and there was no chance that I was going to let her go. I worked with the mare slowly and calmly for months....at first just teaching her to stand still while I brushed her. I was in no rush to ride her. She was simply scared of her own shadow. A few months later, I was riding her. Even though she only trusts me, she and I learned to ride together and she is very special to me. Before I moved her across the country with me, I had her old owner come out and had her three young children ride her while I lead her around. She couldn't beleive it.

Anyways, I don't think you have to buy an expensive horse and spend thousands of dollars on training if you do your own homework and learn to understand horses. You still may need a little training and sopme lessons, but that is not a quick fix necessarily. You are going to ride your horse different and interact with your horse differently from someone else...your horse will read that. You need to be a leader for your horse and develop mutual respect. Having an expensive horse doesn't mean it is a robot....you will have the same issues with any horse if you don't develop the correct relationship. Also, there are some trainers I wouldn't let touch my free horses for any $$$$.
     
    06-11-2012, 08:01 PM
  #107
Foal
I, too, got a mental image of carrying the horse..I needed that laugh, so thank you!

I very much appreciate the kind words. When my email informed me there were replies to the thread, I cringed wondering what I was in for. The trainer I had come out didn't want any money..she was the one I'd paid for 18mnths 3x a week w/my tw. I'm also the Godmother to one of her children.

When it comes to other people's horses and how they might handle things, I'm actually clear and give some solid advice. I can see the pitfalls and the possitives..I totally suck at it as it relates to myself.

I'm looking for a place to take some lessons to build my confidence back up. I even went so far as to BOOK a lesson!! Met this nice young couple at a breed demo and thought a lot of him and how he handled his horses. So, about a year later (apx 6wks ago) scheduled the lesson. Day of the lesson, I got in my truck, took courage in hand, drove 35min. Over hill, dale and into the great beyond. Couldn't find the place though I knew I was in the neighborhood so I called them. Mrs. Answered the phone: she was in the hospital and forgot to call me to cancel my lesson. In fact, she forgot all about having a lesson. Bitched and moaned 35min. Home. Have another trainer's number and am working up the nerve to call her.

I'm beginning to wonder if Somebody is telling me I shouldn't have a horse! Again, thank you for your suggestions..the understanding means a lot. Did anyone look at Mary River's qualifications?? Did I miss something?? Would you guys have trusted her to do a good job??

I don't care if the horse is expensive..could be a freebie. I'm not picky about gender, you can't ride papers or color, I just wanted a nice, easy solid trail buddy. And this isn't all of my experiences.
jaydee likes this.
     
    06-12-2012, 03:49 PM
  #108
Super Moderator
buying the right horse

[quote=Hunter65;1542543]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
Ouch!!!
I know nothing about gaited horses but I'd think the same pretty much applies to them as anything else. I looked at so many horses when I dynamite to get it moving, I was saying that at my age (and all going rapidly downhill) that I didn't want anything particularly challenging but I didn't want something that made me feel that it wanted me to get off and carry it either, I'd been used to a mare that I just have to 'think' forward and she goes. I found a dealer - which horrified my vet as they


I was just trying to picture this
It was not a pretty sight I can tell you. One owner told me it was my fault and I obviously didn't know how to ride if I couldn't 'boot' the horse on hard enough
Another that I did try really hard with as it was so pretty and nice on the ground but after a couple of circuits I got off and my legs felt so worn out my husband thought he would have to carry me to the truck
Another REALLY pretty horse and again lovely on the ground the owner was so determined to sell it to me that he whacked it so hard on the butt that his stick broke - the horse didn't even lengthen its stride never mind go faster!!!
     
    06-12-2012, 04:01 PM
  #109
Super Moderator
buying the right horse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Horse    
I, too, got a mental image of carrying the horse..I needed that laugh, so thank you!

I very much appreciate the kind words. When my email informed me there were replies to the thread, I cringed wondering what I was in for. The trainer I had come out didn't want any money..she was the one I'd paid for 18mnths 3x a week w/my tw. I'm also the Godmother to one of her children.

When it comes to other people's horses and how they might handle things, I'm actually clear and give some solid advice. I can see the pitfalls and the possitives..I totally suck at it as it relates to myself.

I'm looking for a place to take some lessons to build my confidence back up. I even went so far as to BOOK a lesson!! Met this nice young couple at a breed demo and thought a lot of him and how he handled his horses. So, about a year later (apx 6wks ago) scheduled the lesson. Day of the lesson, I got in my truck, took courage in hand, drove 35min. Over hill, dale and into the great beyond. Couldn't find the place though I knew I was in the neighborhood so I called them. Mrs. Answered the phone: she was in the hospital and forgot to call me to cancel my lesson. In fact, she forgot all about having a lesson. Bitched and moaned 35min. Home. Have another trainer's number and am working up the nerve to call her.

I'm beginning to wonder if Somebody is telling me I shouldn't have a horse! Again, thank you for your suggestions..the understanding means a lot. Did anyone look at Mary River's qualifications?? Did I miss something?? Would you guys have trusted her to do a good job??

I don't care if the horse is expensive..could be a freebie. I'm not picky about gender, you can't ride papers or color, I just wanted a nice, easy solid trail buddy. And this isn't all of my experiences.
No you are just like the rest of us - I am super good at giving out advice but when it comes to me I so often throw it straight out of the window and live to regret it.
I hope you don't give up, it would be such a shame if you did.
Over the years, with my job, I have bought horses from all sorts of people and the really swish grand barns were no better than some of the rather scruffy ones, I try to judge what the horse looks and behaves like more than the surroundings. I am actually more suspicious of buying from private sellers unless I know exactly why they are selling. When I was a teenager in England even though I had my own ponies I used to 'hang out' at a little riding school/competition yard and the owner would often take me along to buy ponies from someone who was a 'settled' gypsy, the ponies all grazed on a big acreage of land but would come to call (and a handful of food) he would put a halter on one, throw you up on it and tell you to give it a canter around and it would behave perfectly. I don't remember a single bad pony coming from there but I do remember some really dreadful ones that came from private sellers - not all though of course!!!
     
    06-12-2012, 10:13 PM
  #110
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
No you are just like the rest of us - I am super good at giving out advice but when it comes to me I so often throw it straight out of the window and live to regret it.
I hope you don't give up, it would be such a shame if you did.
Over the years, with my job, I have bought horses from all sorts of people and the really swish grand barns were no better than some of the rather scruffy ones, I try to judge what the horse looks and behaves like more than the surroundings. I am actually more suspicious of buying from private sellers unless I know exactly why they are selling. When I was a teenager in England even though I had my own ponies I used to 'hang out' at a little riding school/competition yard and the owner would often take me along to buy ponies from someone who was a 'settled' gypsy, the ponies all grazed on a big acreage of land but would come to call (and a handful of food) he would put a halter on one, throw you up on it and tell you to give it a canter around and it would behave perfectly. I don't remember a single bad pony coming from there but I do remember some really dreadful ones that came from private sellers - not all though of course!!!
Thanks, Jaydee. It's good to know that I'm not alone in my mistakes or that I've been taken over more than my fare share. I, too, seem to remember that horses didn't used to be so complicated when I was a kid. We'd get a pony and so long as all four feet were on the ground, you were good to go. Couldn't afford a saddle so toss a bridle on and off you went. Sounds like you had some wonderful experiences and fond memories.

Back to what the OP stated as what to do when buying the right horse, I've done just about everything on the list and then some. I'd like to start riding again and appreciate your encouragement. Even though my tw mare was a witch, I had a wonderful bond with her that was unlike any other. I miss that!!
     

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