Calling out - Page 2

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Calling out

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    07-12-2007, 07:59 PM
So much to respond to!

First, do people really use bark collars on horses? I have never heard of that, and don't think I would do it anyway...I would rather live with the calling.

Second, flying B, your response is very similar to what I have heard from many people, and hence, the reason for my dilema. I have heard many times, "stallions are not to call at all". I have also heard more than once that they don't feel pain - I think it may be not that they don't feel pain, but that they can become more distracted, and the standard level of correction may not always get their attention during that time (of course we have a mare who is less responsive to a smack on the chest than my stallion :) )

Third, those of you who suggest letting it go, tell me honestly how you would feel at a show (where you yourself may be stressed about your upcoming events) with a known stallion who kept calling outloud - possibly causing your horse to call back. This is my concern!

I honestly think that he will grow out of the kind of calling he does at the shows, because this year, he has not done it at all when I am in saddle, only when I am leading him, and especially when he is at the trailer. I would like to get him to quit doing it when I am leading him - you have no idea how peircing it is on my ears.

So really, my problem is my ears and the apparent uneasiness of other people. It seems that many people in my area really do feel that YES, some horrible stallion behavior will follow his calling (even if they have calling horses themselves). Once people get to know him, they really do relax around him, which helps a lot - so maybe just giving the people experience around him is half the battle :)

I need to reitterate - the calling I am discussing is like the calling of every other horse I hear (just a bit more frequent than most). His lusty stallion grunts and calls are basically reserved for when he is in his pen/with a mare. When he begins eyeballing our mare, and I can see him begin to want to talk to her in his stalliony way, usually a strong "no" in my special tone is all it takes to get him to begin eyeballing me and say, "what, I wasn't talking to her, I promise" :)

I am not overly harsh on him because he is a stallion, but I am very strict with my expectations of his general behavior. I have had many people compliment me on how well mannered he is in public - he is just a bit noisy :)

I think this is funny, because I never gave calling a second thought with my geldings and mares - I hardly even noticed it - it was just horses being horses. Now, various advice and opinions about how to handle stallions has gotten me so worked up about this subject.

Here are some photos of him to lighten the mood (I love sharing photos).

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    07-13-2007, 08:23 AM
Originally Posted by AKPaintLover
Third, those of you who suggest letting it go, tell me honestly how you would feel at a show (where you yourself may be stressed about your upcoming events) with a known stallion who kept calling outloud - possibly causing your horse to call back. This is my concern!

So really, my problem is my ears and the apparent uneasiness of other people.
Personally, I feel OK at show when my horse calls or other horse calls and mine is responding. Lol!

May be you want to use phones for your own ears? Just kidding. As for other people, yes you are right it's a problem. :( I'v never seen people are using anything to stop horses calling. I havn't seen many people worried about it at all in my area. However may be I'm just lucky...
    07-13-2007, 09:28 AM
He's stunning and looks very sweet! Id give him time and throw as much showing etc at him as you can. The more public appearances he makes the less stage fright he'l suffer!

I know how you feel about your ears though- I wish I had a recording of my boy in action- its rediculously high pitch and he always aimed it down my ear too!

It will get better!!

Elz x
    07-13-2007, 12:05 PM
I don't have a boyfriend I am not gay, an no I don't fell pain like others I was mule kicked in my face once it did not knock me down, chipped two teeth and had teeth almost go through my cheek and kept on working, maybe your BF is just girly no I should not have said that, but maybe that is why when one guy gets hurt and another goes stop being so girly. Tell me something when did I say to " beat him to within one inch of his life" ? I never did say that did I, I said to hit him once in a wile. Don't use a bark collar on a horse it is ok for a stallion to call out when he is in his pen, that being the only place. It is a STALLION all he thinks about 99% of the day is breeding, he thinks about breeding when he is eating (I have seen them not eat wanting to breed), he thinks about breeding when you are riding him, and he thinks about breeding when he is sleeping.
He is NOT calling to make friends he is a STALLION he is looking for a girlfriend, I know you have seen a 16 year old boy be for, think of him as that but it is your girl he is chasing what would you do?

AKApaintlover, you are doing the right thing trying to stop him from calling out, a Judge will not place a STALLION calling in a show (I have seen them removed) and how fare is it when a mare is not placed for call back? There may not be any horrible stallion behavior following, but even the best stallions can and will go bad. When you stick a mare in with him what dose he do first? He calls out right, then what happens they start kicking and then? It may not be your STALLION that goes wild at a show it could be some ones else's stallion or even mare I have seen that be for, where the mare in heat goes running over to the stallion to say hi but the stallion was trained to not be a stallion in halter and just sat there. Be careful on the trail just last year someone got killed when a mare was in front of the stallion and the stallion jumped up on her killing her rider. So many people forget how big of a mess a 1,000 pound horse can make. Stallions are not to call out when they are out of there pen, just find a trainer that tells you the same thing, take a lesson or two and then you will be happier when you go to a show and he only calls out once. When a stallion calls out that is just step one of stallion behavior and then every thing else will fallow he is still kind of young still learning how to be a stallion just fix it now and it will be easier later. Justin
    07-13-2007, 04:34 PM
(OUT OF LINE!! Be very careful, personally attacking people is not the aim of the game, thank you!)

But that's great that people have different opinions, it would be a super dull world if we all thought the same but with out seeing/hearing him in action I will beg to differ with flying B.

A stallion is a stallion but that doesnt make him different from your average horse on many occasions. He's a baby and will get better with perseverance. I have worked with the most soppy/dopey stallions around and also some of the most nasty, and there is a huge difference in stallion calls to the girls and an everso slightly unsure baby horse, getting abit worried and checking out his surroundings.

All the best,

Elz x
    07-13-2007, 07:38 PM
I believe you called what I said the other day " ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGIOUS!!!! " You can say what you want but if I would go around and do a poll with trainers that train as a full time job I know what 99% of them would say. When my gelding calls out I back him up only because I don't want calling out in a show, raining, or cutting pen.

AKpaintlover I still know you would be so much more happier with him not doing that every 5 mins, and you are not doing anything wrong by trying to get him to stop, I know I hate it when I am parked next to someone and they have a horse that will not shut up. A stallion is just a horse but it is still a horse that will fight and breed with any other boy or girl horse it can find. Last I checked a 5 year old is called a horse, so you would call him a stallion and not a colt am I right?
    07-14-2007, 04:21 AM
Flying B, I agree my horse is a young adult, but I also see where hsharp123 is coming from - he is inexperienced. If a horse is "green" until about 500 hours of riding (this of course depends on whose opinion) - is he not also green to public events for a certain number of hours? I have 500+ hours of riding time on him, but I probably have barely 40 or so hours at shows, trail rides, and other events combined.

Just an update for everyone... I took my boy to a show tonight for trail class and... he was very, very good. He was his quietest yet. I think he is becoming comfortable with the grounds because we have been there so much before. He was quiet while I was leading him, while I was riding, and only called at the trailer right when we arrived (when all of the other horses were calling as well).

I defintely think there are different opinions on this topic (as with any other topic) for good reason. It all really depends on the horse and each particular situation. It would not be fair if I said that I would just ignore his behavior all of the time or if I said I would correct it 100% of the time. I think I need to just be on top of deciding if it is a correct the behavior situation or a just let it go situation based on what I know about my horse. It seems he may just grow out of this painful on my ears habit yet :)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I love this forum, because you can usually find something helpful, interesting, and/or educational from everyone.

A couple of pics from tonight:

Ignore my hands :) Bad me, I didn't even realize I was doing that

    07-14-2007, 02:17 PM
Flying B- I did say that and stand by it but what I definitely did NOT do and would NEVER do is name call your family/friends or partner! I simply used a metaphor in order to better explain my view point.

And I agree, give him time a repremand him when you feel it is right too, you know him better than anybody! He is green and I bet 99% of horses that call at shows will be green or nervous/anxious! Its a fact of life- horses can only do what you can to make them feel as though you are their most important friend and that they do not require anybody elses friendship!

Good luck - I love him he's simply beautiful!!!

H, xxx
    07-14-2007, 05:15 PM
Hsharp123, I did not call him a name I just said "(maybe) your BF is just girly" I don't know how it is done in the UK but here in the USA most people would have said a lot of bad bad things, if you well just about call what they think dumb. I have spent lots of time with other trainers and they all said just about the same thing I said. If a horse starts nibbling at one do you let it go and wait for it to turn in to biting? What do you call a green horse? If you can bring it in a trail class it must be the best green horse in the world. The bottom line is if you did not like what I said you just shut up and say what you want to say without call someone else's opinion "ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGIOUS" :( now do you see where I coming from? I have seen a lot of things I did and do not like but I don't say it was "ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGIOUS" or the dumbest thing ever and not think they are not going to say anything back, now that would be dumb. The first thing that came to my mind when I saw that was "and who are you and who do you think you are saying that ".
    07-15-2007, 02:57 AM
By reprimanding a horse and teaching a horse that backing and shoulder in are punishment is going to be very detrimental to training in the future. Also assuming that the horse knows how to shoulder in and back is a bit narrow minded. However, I do believe creating diversions to bring the horse's attention back to you is acceptable, which is something I would suggest at a show.
I have had several years of daily experience with dozens of high line breeding stallions. I say that these horses were World Champions to give the idea of how many times they were bred or had sperm collections (IE. Often!) I can tell you from personal experience that all of these creatures feel pain. Several of the stallions were bigger babies then my gelding. Pain tolerance has nothing to do with gender, let alone castration. Preaching to others that stallions do not feel pain of have a high pain tolerance is IMO, ignorant.
There are several ways to treat stallions. However, from my experience, I seem to notice two treads - either no discipline at all or far too much. Both ways lead/led to huge behavioral issues. Mistreating an animal or being overly harsh will breed training issues in its self.
My best advise is to treat your stallion like any other gelding or mare. If you are being apprehensive, odds are you are getting information that isn't sitting right with you. There are DOZENS of people that will give stallion advise with NO experience with stallions. The only thing to remember is that if you use your stallion to breed, he is a stud. Therefore, he has a job and knows his job (trust me ) It will be difficult for the fact that all stallions are extremely willing to "do their job." As the trainer, you must communicate and make it clear as to when it is time to ride and when it is time to breed. If your stallion behaves well with the exception of calling, consider your job well done.
Any horse will call. We as humans do not know the reason for them to call. If you can't live with it, try distracting him from whatever it is that makes him feel the need to call. Please, do not punish, which I doubt you would anyway! It is herd behavior and instinct.

Flying B, how many stallions have you trained and been around consistently?

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