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Calling out

This is a discussion on Calling out within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        07-15-2007, 06:57 AM
      #21
    Weanling
    Saying that a horse doesnt feel pain due to it being uncastrated is outragious! And I still stand by that feeling towards such an ignorant comment!

    And what the hell does my boyfriend have to do with this topic! That is my point! I was using a metaphor and you were being plain rude!!!!!! I am aloud to dissagree with you, its my right as a free thinking human being but for you to say anything about my boyfriend is rediculous- listen to yourself in you first post back to me and you will see why I am angry.

    This whole statement is irrelivant to this conversation and its is out of line!

    Quote:
    I don't have a boyfriend I am not gay, an no I don't fell pain like others I was mule kicked in my face once it did not knock me down, chipped two teeth and had teeth almost go through my cheek and kept on working, maybe your BF is just girly no I should not have said that, but maybe that is why when one guy gets hurt and another goes stop being so girly.
    You obviously knew it was when you wrote it so WHY WRITE IT??? And also I do not have to "shut up" as you so pleasantly put it as this is a forum and asks for my opinion, I have said nothing detrimental and have only tried to be helpful. You opinion is yours and im aloud to dissagree with it, END OF!

    I could take one of my green horses in a ODE, or dressage test...it does not mean that the horse is upto that standard...only winning that class would mean that, however it is all good experience for a green horse to try new things out.

    I completely agree with you Kristy, Good luck with your boy and more pics please!
         
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        07-15-2007, 11:46 AM
      #22
    Foal
    Kristy, I have started two colts that are stallions now and have been told that they are the best behave stallions they have ever seen, I am in the middle of starting a uncut 4 year old right now that thinks he's 10. Oh and I have ridden a cutting stallion that came in third last year, I have been around world champion raining horses, cutting and roping horses. Do you know how they "punish" there horses? If you don't hit your horses then how do you punish you horse when it does wrong?

    "Also assuming that the horse knows how to shoulder in and back is a bit narrow minded."
    WHAT, the rider has to know how to do it I can go out right now and get a horse that doesn't even have 30 days on him and get him to do it, that shows what you know right there. How in the world is it going to be "detrimental to training in the future"? How does Monty Roberts, Clinton Anderson, and even Pat Parelli "punish" there horses? So Kristy how do you "punish" your horses? Or are you one of those people that let there horse get away with every thing.

    Kristy I see you said use a bark collar, aren't they for dogs? A lot of them blow air out to stop the dog from barking, so you think it is a good idea to scare a horse when she is on or around him because I would not use one in his pen that would be a good spot for him to call out that is his home?

    Hsharp123 You said "So just because your boyfriend/hubby is an uncastrated male he doesn't feel pain???????" that is how that came up, and I am not gay so I do not have a boyfriend. I did not tell you to shut up I was just saying you don't have to put other people opinions down that is just rude, didn't you mom tell you if you don't have any thing nice to say then don't say any thing at all? I think Akpaintlover is a big girl if she does not like what she hears then she does not have to listen.

    To tell you to the truth I don't care what you two think about me, as long as people are happy with there horses when they take them home.
         
        07-15-2007, 01:00 PM
      #23
    Weanling
    Thats called a metaphor darling!! Look the meaning up and yourl understand what I mean. I did not put your opinion down I simply disagreed with it.....END OF.

    Please don't tell me that you think hitting a horse is the only way to discipline them, else I will go mad! (insane, not angry mad- just incase you misunderstand, again!) I do and have smacked an unruley horse before but I def do not make a habit of HITTING it! Infact I very rarely need to repremand my horses with force at all, a raised voice, or change in tone is all that I require as they have whats called RESPECT for me (definately not a fear of me smacking them). Which can often cause more problems such as head shyness and flightly behaviour, which only adds to the problem you were trying to prevent in the first place.

    Anyway lets not do this anymore I think I would be better off banging my head on a wall!

    I agree that if your horses owners are happy then that's great! Keep up the good work! Im sorry we havnt seen eye to eye but then that's life- as I said before it would be a very boring place if we all thought the same.

    Also how does Pat Parelli and such, repremand their horses? Im not a big knowledge when it comes to these american behaviourists (obviously I have heard of them) I have seen Monty Roberts live and he was very forceful against the need to use physical force at all I.e hitting a horse, he would get in their space, use eye contact and do join up with a horse in order to make it submit to his way. Never once saw him smack a horse? Not once.....???

    Elz x
         
        07-15-2007, 02:37 PM
      #24
    Foal
    No you should not hit a horse, but there are times when needed, like when they think it is ok to run you over. I was just asking Kristy then what should you do she doesn't like backing, and doesn't like hitting so does she let her horse get away with what ever it wants. To tell you the truth Parelli is not that good, Most of what I do is just about the same as Clinton Anderson but I was doing that way be for he came out.

    What do you call a broke horse? I have a lot of people say one that will not buck. I try to tell them that does not make a horse broke, I look for one that can move just move the front, just that back, side pass, and back.

    We do have one thing in commend, that is to ride a broke horse that is better than everyone else's LOL, but don't train the same.

    The saying is END OF "IT" LOL
         
        07-15-2007, 07:21 PM
      #25
    Yearling
    I am glad to see you guys have seemed to resolve what seemed like somewhat of a misunderstanding on both ends. That is one of the troublesome things about communicating in this way :)

    Okay, I no longer think my boy is green when it comes to general riding. He picks up both leads, backs, sidepasses, turns on the haunches/forehand, and consistently picks up each gait when cued. He does not buck or rear. BUT, when I take him to a show around other horses and distractions, he has a very hard time focusing on me and can't always put those pieces together when necessary.

    Just because my horse is "green" or inexperienced in show situations doesn't mean that I should not enter a trail class. I think doing it is the only way to give him experience.

    I finishe my western riding classes today, and my boy held it together until our very last class (judges command), at which point he had a bit of a melt down. He still performed all of the maneuvers, but he lost all of his supplenes, was pushing through the bit a lot, and was very distracted by our mare who he was calling back and forth with from the parking lot. He reminded me of a little kid who had been overstimulated and just sort of lost it. I was very frustrated, and I spoke with the trainer I had been working with. He said not to focus so much on the calling right now, but getting him focused all the way on me. He said the calling would go away as he focused on me rather than the other horses who were talking to him. I cooled him down for the day by suppling him back up, and getting his focus back on me (which I couldn't do in the actual class). He is making improvements, because last year, he would often start out the day as frazzled as he ended the day today.

    I have used backing and other movements to correct - not so much as punishment, but to get him focused on me and show him, when he focuses on me, he can quit working. I have also smacked him in the chest from time to time when I feel like he is crowding me a bit. Other than smacking, I really like some of the ground methods Parelli uses to remind the horse to give you your space - we are just a bit rusty at the moment because so much training lately has been focused in saddle.

    Though I am still a bit unsure about my exact game plan for this calling situation other than experience, I have also been complemented by numerous people about how mannered he is at public events. He acts like an inexperienced five year old, not a stallion. I had one lady come up and appologize to be for chatting with me the week before on her mare - she said she had no idea he was a stallion, and she felt really bad for bringing her mare so close. I reassured her that it was my responsibility to give other space, and if it had been a problem, I would have moved him away. As it was, he was practically sleeping away.

    I am working on it guys, and I really appreciate feedback.

    Here are a couple of pics from today (before the meltdown) :)


         
        07-15-2007, 10:22 PM
      #26
    Foal
    Man to bad you don't live closer it sounds like you know how to ride, if he can do all that then he is broke. Backing is a geart way to "correct" your horse and is a good way to work on backing, why punishment was said I don't know. It works great because horses are lazy and backing is hard work. Don't beat your self up about the "meltdown" even the old horses will have a bad day. That sounds like a horse I would buy, for shure. Don't have the money for one like that but I can make him like that, I like to start them any way that way I know no body messed him up.
         
        07-16-2007, 05:22 AM
      #27
    Weanling
    By broke do you mean backed/broken to ride?? Slightly confused.

    What would you call a backed horse? I certainly wouldnt call it a horse that doesnt buck? (if I am correct in thinking that is what was meant?) that's abit vague for my liking. I would want a horse walking, troting, cantering, going into a controlled gallop and coming back to me correctly, doing no less than 20m circles in all three gaits and thinking nicely about coming into an outline (but then I ride english). A very well backed horse would also have had its education expanded by taking it out on the road and it being very well manered on the road and around traffic! Working with things on the ground also such as loading well and walking in hand nicely, I spend a great deal of time getting my horse bombproof/desensitised for e.g. Walking happily over sheets on the floor, having plastic bags rustled all over them, having their feet messed with and spend hours grooming them and playing with clippers around them. Nothing comes as a shock in later life that way. They also go to lots of events/shows even when they are only just sat on or in hand, to get then used to the idea so when they are riden at a show and go in a class there is no real shock...

    More advanced stuff such as flying changes, shortening and lengthening of stride and other movements like them, I would consider further training and I wouldnt expect those mastered unless it was a very forward thinking/advanced horse and or the horse had been away for much longer than 8weeks. (or your my lil concorde mare, who does all of those things for fun within 6weeks lol)

    I don't hold grudges but do like to resolve a problem that I have had with somebody so I am very happy that we have sorted this out and can now get on with things!

    Elz x
         
        07-16-2007, 10:42 AM
      #28
    Foal
    I have never heard of a backed horse, must be a UK thing. Your not as picky as I am about a horse being broke. Your bombproof/desensitized is way easer than any thing my horses have to do, about 70% of what I do is bomb proofing horses and there riders (80% of the time it is the riders that are spooky and not the horse) my horses have to go over mattress, guns shot off there back, bull whips off there back, go thru plastic walls, thru fire (it is only 1 off the ground there more spooky of the black smoke), tarps blowing over there head when I am standing in the saddle, and any thing else I can think of, but I am also on a mounted patrol. That is good that you work on all that stuff, to many people will not scare a horse because it could spook, I always say if you don't spook it now and fix it they will spook later and then someone could get hurt. If you have any ideas that could spook my horses I would love to hear them because I am out of ideas.
         
        07-17-2007, 12:52 PM
      #29
    Weanling
    I know! Everybody always tells me not to scare a "baby" horse, but they are scared for the first few minutes and then playing with the plastic bag 5seconds later for eg, none of my horses are spooky now and that's not because they are naturally bombproof, that its because they have been educated. (Gun shots are a good idea but unfortunately the UK is a little tighter on regs about those things so can't really do that.... ) The closest thing would be the winter shoot season, my lot are very unbothered about it. I can also clip my mare, while every other horse on the yard goes mad with the whole hunt party meeting outside in full view! She was only 4yrs old the 1st time, and everyone thought I was mad-but she was fine and very content, she likes the vibration on her muscles!

    Tarps, cones, road signs, jeeps, quads, tractors, tractors with rollers/ploughs, motorcross bikes, horses and carts/traps, lawn mowers, hedge cutters etc etc. Also hairdryers, drills, hanging things around their stables, when im on I will do alot of bear back riding, round the world-touching them all over, sitting on them when they are lying down in the field (they will let me do anything to them when im finished!) Putting their feet in buckets of water (yes all four of them eventually and they will just stand there until I say that each foot is clean, and move each bucket!hehe Its hard work and some come around easier than others but its SO worth it!

    You don't get this spooking at fillers, or on the road and they will do just about anything asked. Water is also a thing I concentrate on (hose pipes too!) as so many horses have a thing about jumping into water or even walking through it. I wont go over the top with things, as there really isnt a need, I just try and get them used to the things that they will encounter in their lifetime.
    I may not be the worlds greatest eventer, jumper, or dressage rider but my horses will bend over backwards for me and their owners when im done!
    My mares first outing to the most scary cross country course in the midlands, where she poppep everything, only went so smoothly because she had complete trust in what I asked of her- its a great feeling! She went all on her own (just with me) and camera man (my boyfriend) and she didnt tank off, she went round like an angel, didnt stop/look or spook at anything!

    Good Job!
         
        07-17-2007, 01:04 PM
      #30
    Foal
    I think mine was 2 the first time I used the cutters, I just tie them to the hitching post and move closer and closer until I start cutting, if they go to sit down or pull that is ok because then they learn they can't get off the post and then you can tie them to anything. I had my horse swimming today tack got a little wet but it will dry out.
         

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