Can't stop my Horse - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 44 Old 08-16-2009, 03:39 PM
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I agree completly with spastic dove don't do what imissmyhorserocket suggested it is skipping training and leaving gaps
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post #12 of 44 Old 08-16-2009, 08:26 PM
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Ugh. I feel for you. A jigging, pacing, just get there horse is a very frustrating experience. While I agree with others, that the bit is not the answer. With your mare, I would start with some very simple exercises. It sounds like when she acts up, she's already a few steps ahead of you. She knows that when she does A, you'll counter with B. She's already thinking about C,D and E, and I'm guessing you just end up a tense, frustrated rider who really just wants to get back to the barn and get off, ironically same as her.

I would start in the ring with some very simple exercises. Break it down into one cause/one reaction concepts so she forgets about escalation. The first game I would play is walk/stop on a long rein. Let her walk freely and follow her motion completely with your seat. At your choice, ask her to stop by not following her motion with your seat, tighten your stomach mucles and sit tall and deep. At first you will have to use your reins to let her know what you want, but once she starts understanding what you want, try not to use them. The important thing with the game, and really all of them, is she has to do it correctly even if only once. It might take 10 minutes or an hour, so make sure you have time to follow through. When you succeed in stopping her with your seat, game #2 starts. Game #2 is she doesn't move forward until you say so. At first increase her chance of success by only making her stand a few seconds before moving on, but if she moves off prematurely, seat stop again. If she gets fussy, try as hard as possible not to resort to the reins. Sit deep and tall and make as little a deal about it as possible. Once you get start/stop down, try it near but outside of the ring. If your training is solid, walls shouldn't make a difference. Again, don't stop the lesson until she's done it correctly, even if it's only once. When she does it right, praise her big time. If she gets jiggy, act like it's all good and you have all day. Don't react to what she's doing, but do manage it. Use leg yeild, shoulder-in, haunches-in, whatever you need keep her attention until you can get it back to just a basic start/stop game. Mare's can be a little thick, but ultimately she needs you up there calling the shots. Good luck.
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post #13 of 44 Old 08-17-2009, 01:39 AM
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The answer isn't in harsher bits and longer shanks. That would just be stupid.
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post #14 of 44 Old 08-17-2009, 07:40 AM
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The horse has to know what "Whoa" means. Changing bits and equipment before the horse knows what you mean only serves to ruin his mouth and he still doesn't know what you're doing. You'll wind up with a head slinging horse that avoids the bit and acts crazy.

Like the others said, go back to groundwork and lungeline and teach what "whoa" means. They should know that on a halter without even having a bit in the mouth!
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post #15 of 44 Old 08-17-2009, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marecare View Post
Horses don't stop because of the bit,they stop because of the training.

.
If bits don't stop a horse how is it possible that I climb on unbroken horses, ride out the buck and then take them out almost immediately into the open spaces???
How is it possible that I spend only 3 or 4 days in a round pen getting ahold of a new youngster and then head out into the bush knowing I can stop him after only a few jumps if he tries?? A beleive me any new youngster will make those sudden out of the blue leaps but are quickly shut down.
I ride in a copper roller mouthpiece broken snaffle D ring.
Twice I have had people hold a horse and one was a 7 year old mostly wild stallion , these people hold the horse while I mount and then turn him loose and I head out??? How is this possible if a bit doesn't stop a horse???
I have been at it 51 years and have yet to have a horse run away with me.
Again I use a simple snaffle but move up to a mild curb as the horse becomes trained.
I also ride run aways for people and I will stop them with the bit.

What stops a horse in the middle of a wild horse race, when his head is only into running with the others and you pull him out of the race??? His training or his bit.. Take one away and will the other stop him??
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post #16 of 44 Old 08-17-2009, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoMuchManureSoLittleTime View Post
Like the others said, go back to groundwork and lungeline and teach what "whoa" means. They should know that on a halter without even having a bit in the mouth!
"Whoa " means nothing to a horse standing on a starting line with 60 other horses waiting for the starter to drop the flag and let the run begin.
Do all the ground work you want, teach all the whoa you want on the lung line and you will still have a problem in a situtation like above.

A horse that is taught good and solid and by not saying please is the only way under all situations that it will hold.

Nearly every single ride I take has a planed situation build into it, one that the horse will be tested and will be forced to react in a certain way will train a horse to handle situations in the future.

You do ground work if you are not strong enough/ skilled enough to handle it from astride.

Again I have 20 years experience of only using bossels, side pulls, bitless but much much prefer a bit for lightness and 31 years of using bits
The bit is not for controlling a horse but a reinforcement if the other controls don't work. Soft hands but a strong enforcement when the time comes makes a soft horse.
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post #17 of 44 Old 08-17-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiosDad View Post
If bits don't stop a horse how is it possible that I climb on unbroken horses, ride out the buck and then take them out almost immediately into the open spaces???
How is it possible that I spend only 3 or 4 days in a round pen getting ahold of a new youngster and then head out into the bush knowing I can stop him after only a few jumps if he tries?? A beleive me any new youngster will make those sudden out of the blue leaps but are quickly shut down.
I ride in a copper roller mouthpiece broken snaffle D ring.
Twice I have had people hold a horse and one was a 7 year old mostly wild stallion , these people hold the horse while I mount and then turn him loose and I head out??? How is this possible if a bit doesn't stop a horse???
I have been at it 51 years and have yet to have a horse run away with me.
Again I use a simple snaffle but move up to a mild curb as the horse becomes trained.
I also ride run aways for people and I will stop them with the bit.

What stops a horse in the middle of a wild horse race, when his head is only into running with the others and you pull him out of the race??? His training or his bit.. Take one away and will the other stop him??
The horse will stop because of the bit - eventually, and for the wrong reasons, and it's possible you can pull so hard to make him stop that he'll flip over too. It is possible to muscle or intimidate a horse into stopping with a bit, that is for sure, but I think this young lady would like to have a relaxing and enjoyable experience for her and her horse, and that means stopping without fear, intimidation and wondering how hard she's going to have to pull to stop.
My suggestion to you is to find a good competent trainer who can help you and your horse as a team.
"whoa" begins on the ground. It is so so simple to teach. Work on it doing everyday things - when you walk to the pasture, say "whoa" and ask him to stop. If he does not, make him stop with pressure on the lead, and make him back up. Reward him as he hets more responsive. Move it to when you are riding, but begin in an arena at the walk. Baby steps! Oh, and the word "whoa" should be exclusive to stopping. It should not mean "slow down", or "stop soon please" - it should mean STOP RIGHT NOW!!
I hope for you have success dealing with this problem, and you and your horse can enjoy your rides more!

~Lindsay~ Mom of 2, wife to the goldsmith, doula and childbirth educator in training, life-long horse dork
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post #18 of 44 Old 08-17-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shesinthebarn View Post
The horse will stop because of the bit - eventually, and for the wrong reasons, and it's possible you can pull so hard to make him stop that he'll flip over too. It is possible to muscle or intimidate a horse into stopping with a bit, that is for sure, but I think this young lady would like to have a relaxing and enjoyable experience for her and her horse, and that means stopping without fear, intimidation and wondering how hard she's going to have to pull to stop.
My suggestion to you is to find a good competent trainer who can help you and your horse as a team.
"whoa" begins on the ground. It is so so simple to teach. Work on it doing everyday things - when you walk to the pasture, say "whoa" and ask him to stop. If he does not, make him stop with pressure on the lead, and make him back up. Reward him as he hets more responsive. Move it to when you are riding, but begin in an arena at the walk. Baby steps! Oh, and the word "whoa" should be exclusive to stopping. It should not mean "slow down", or "stop soon please" - it should mean STOP RIGHT NOW!!
I hope for you have success dealing with this problem, and you and your horse can enjoy your rides more!
That's just it. I don't need help. MY guys set the standard for any horses around them. They are the best in any barn. Their manners, their relaxed way of going, just everything about them. I am not just bragging. I am stating a fact that anyone who knows my guys will attest too.
I am just sharing my method, my way of creating this type of horse.
It doesn't come with methods I read here. It comes with hard work, a knowledge of how to create this type of horse and years of experience.
Enjoy my rides?? I put almost 50 miles a week on a horse, week after week of pure fun. Weather , wind, rain, snow does not stop a ride I plane.
I am an addict. I have an addiction. I coverd about 30 miles this weekend even with heat approaching 100 in the mid day. How many miles did you cover???
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post #19 of 44 Old 08-17-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiosDad View Post
"Whoa " means nothing to a horse standing on a starting line with 60 other horses waiting for the starter to drop the flag and let the run begin.
Do all the ground work you want, teach all the whoa you want on the lung line and you will still have a problem in a situtation like above.

A horse that is taught good and solid and by not saying please is the only way under all situations that it will hold.

Nearly every single ride I take has a planed situation build into it, one that the horse will be tested and will be forced to react in a certain way will train a horse to handle situations in the future.

You do ground work if you are not strong enough/ skilled enough to handle it from astride.

Again I have 20 years experience of only using bossels, side pulls, bitless but much much prefer a bit for lightness and 31 years of using bits
The bit is not for controlling a horse but a reinforcement if the other controls don't work. Soft hands but a strong enforcement when the time comes makes a soft horse.
A lot of brag and bravado as usual,but not much help to the OP.
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post #20 of 44 Old 08-17-2009, 10:27 AM
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Teddy Boy, anger won't help. The mare will pick up on your anger - your harsh hands, your voice, the whip, the boot. She'll know she is winning her battle with you. You've entered her comfort zone and she wants you out. If you are to win then you must lose the anger and if you can't then think about passing her on.

All the cues as to what to do have been posted already. Take your pick.
Many of us have been where you are now. Some horses need subtle handling. Some horses are devious.

If she were mine then:
First ignore her for a week or two. Let her feel neglected. Make a fuss of other horses in her vision. Don't let other humans near her. Make her jealous.

Then one day back to basics in the round pen.
Take off all the bits, work in a training halter which acts on the nose and the poll. Take off all the tiedowns. You are going to ask her and not demand. Round and round you go. Lots of stops and starts. Make her bored. Get her to walk at your shoulder without contact on the lead rope. Get her to turn with you. Work her daily.

Only you to handle her,to feed her,to groom her. You are to be her human - her only human. Once she starts to whinnie when you approach then you are beginning to win.

Eventually work her in the saddle in the pen. Lots of circles, lots of stops. Some backups. Lots of obstacles. Use a very light pull back on the reins. Get her to stand still for 5 minutes or so whilst you gossip.

It takes time and patience. You must never ever get angry with her again. No crops. No shouting. No arms. No spurs. No tugging on the mouth.

Always 'Ask' her, 'demand' of her then finally 'insist' but always ask her first. A light quiet voice. The lightest of pressure only on the lead rein. If you get angry then she knows instantly she has won.

If you don't think your winning then ask someone knowledgeable to watch. But don't pass her on to another teacher to work. She has to come to accept you as the boss.

Maybe eventually you might decide she is not for you however maybe you can with patience win. You are the more intelligent, you have the odds in your favour. She is your horse.

SHe has to do willingly what you ask in the arena - otherwise out in the open you have no chance and the longer disobedience goes on, the worse the disobedience will get. A lawless horse is no good to you.
Or anyone close by. To be safe you must be in control and the horse must trust you.

Be patient. Be clever. Enjoy the battle of wits. Be careful. Join the club.

Barry G
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