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Chance AGAIN!! worst then ever!!!! VERY LONG!

This is a discussion on Chance AGAIN!! worst then ever!!!! VERY LONG! within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        04-10-2008, 08:59 AM
      #31
    Weanling
    I'm sorry, I've read through this post and the others you have put out. Are you sure this horse isn't too much for you at this point in time?

    I'm truly not meaning to be mean or rude, just something to ask yourself...

    If you feel like you can do this, you truly need to get some books or videos to show you the correct way to do the groundwork. Groundwork HAS TO BE consistentn, not haphazard. The games are fine, but I really think you just have to get yourself in a routine with just the basics for this horse. If you can't even pick up her feet to clean them, I suggest you start as if this horse was barely greenbroke!! You have to also work with desensitizing this horse. She shouldn't be nipping at you period or she should get a quick pop on the nose...even a thump works since their noses are so sensitive. NOT A HARD POP, just enough to get her attention!

    I had responded before saying Iwould give you some groundwork tips, but I truly think you need to do some studying and figure out what's going to work best should you decide to go any further with this situation.
         
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        04-10-2008, 11:09 AM
      #32
    Started
    I am going to agree with ahearn.......are you sure Chance isn't too much for you? Please do not think I am trying to be mean or rude, I'm really not, I'm just concerned for your safey, Chance's safety and Chance's foundation.

    From what I've read, Chance is lacking a good, proper foundation. Young, green horses are a serious, huge responsibility and if you don't know what you're doing (people in general) than you (again ppl in general) have no business handling a young, green horse. Young horses need you to be consistant and above all patient. Handling a young horse takes a great deal of feel, timing and savvy to deal with. It's a serious matter.

    I do agree with the fact that you need to pick one kind of "method" to use on Chance and stick with it. Be it Parelli or not, if you do one thing one way and then the next time say "No, today I want it THIS way!" you will just confuse and frustrate her. Pick one and stick with it. SInce I do Parelli, if you choose that path I would urge you to contact an Instructor or go take a Level 1 clinic with an Instructor. Like I said, training a young horse isn't something to be taken lightly.

    At the same time you are being consistant with your training, do not fall into the trap of becoming direct lined in your thinking. It sounds like that is what happened with you AND your trainer and Chance paid for it unfortunately. It's not about the task, be it ground work or riding, it's about building confidence, softness, and respect. Respect does not mean showing the horse who is boss, respect is showing leadership in the correct amount at the given time, being as soft as possible but as firm as necessary, trusting that she will respond but being ready to correct, but no one more than the other.
         
        04-10-2008, 11:15 AM
      #33
    Weanling
    I think ahearn and Spirithorse hit the nail on the head. I agree with both of them. HAF I would greatly consider what they are sayin.
         
        04-10-2008, 12:51 PM
      #34
    Foal
    Going on my own here....pointing out my assessment and trying not to be biased based on others posts.

    A green rider and a green horse don't mix.

    Chance apparently needs more time under saddle with an experienced trainer/rider. And not to be rude, but I wonder if your current trainer has the skills that Chance needs?

    It seems to me like you haven't gained Chance's respect. You may not be asking for it. It seems like you are demanding her to respect you by forcing the issue when she "acts out".

    You need extensive ground work and to find a method of training and be consistent. If you are going to do NH then pick ONE and stay with that ONE. IF you are going to do Parelli make sure you FINISH the levels before starting another one. A know some people mix the training methods up. But on a particularly stubborn horse it's better to choose one and work on it.

    Make a "work out" schedule" and stick to it!!
    Each time she rears STOP and don't do anything stand for 5-10 minutes and then cue a walk.

    1st couple of weeks.
    Do ground work with chosen method
    Always done before any saddle time
    Next
    Work on your walking commands for 2 weeks:
    Stand still, then cue forward for the walk.
    Then work on your reining at a walk. Rein cue to the left and etc.
    Try some pass/bends at the walk
    Try large circles then try a complete direction change at the walk

    Then after 2-4 weeks start at the trot.
    Do every thing you did at the walk then move up to a trot. To get her warmed up.
    Ease in to a trot and let her trot at her will in a nice long circle with no demands to do anything, but follow the outside of the circle.
    Then cue her to make her circles smaller by reining in one direction.
    Then stop and rest. Now walk her to get back to the outside of the circle ...cue the trot in a different direction and make no demands then gradually cue her to make the circle smaller with reining.
    Rest.

    I would suggest you do this for at least a month before you try and cue a canter. And each time she shows out start back at the walk for a few days and gradually move up to the trot.

    IS this slow? YOU BET!
    BUT what you are doing here is freshening up your reining skills and allowing her to excel at hers.

    NEVER strike your horse or kick it merciless. No matter WHAT the behavior is. This doesn't reinforce the bond between you, but gradually destroys the trust and respect. It is acceptable to issue a "tap" with your heels, but most cues are made with pressure not a kick. Even a stubborn horse can be made to move with the right amount of pressure and a shift in your weight. I get my lazy horse to walk by bowing my legs away from her sides, keeping heel and toe level/even, applying pressure with both heels under her belly behind the cinch strap and rocking my hips/pelvis forward. Its like starting a rocking chair or swing. You ROCK in the saddle forward and the pressure/weight shift throws the slight amount of weight forward and cues the horse to step forward away from the pressure/weight.

    Your horse is rearing, because it knows it can get away with it.
    Next time it rears don't force it into circles or into anything else. Let her rear....then just sit there for 10 minutes or so. Make her stand still. Don't let her walk/trot or whatever until 10 minutes have passed. Then cue her into a walk. IF after walking for 15 minutes she has not reared urge her into a trot and then back to a walk. Rest for 5 minutes and repeat. BUT every time she rears just sit there for 10-15 minutes. This lets you calm yourself (like counting to 10 when you are mad/upset), allows you to adjust your reins and your seat and allows her to know she can't do anything but wait for your cues. Usually a horse comes to love the anticipation of "what's she going to ask me to do next" versus the "oh great THAT again." They were expecting you to force them to complete the trot or action they were doing when they reared. Once you stop all movement and don't force the issue, then ASK for a walk, trot, rein command they will follow your cues much better.
         
        04-10-2008, 01:09 PM
      #35
    Showing
    I agree completely with Ahearn and SpiritHorse.
         
        04-10-2008, 02:51 PM
      #36
    Yearling
    I posted this on your other thread about Chance but here it is again:

    Quote:
    In my opinion, she sounds like a HIGHLY sensitive horse in which case hitting or force will not work and will actually bring her more in an uproar. Have you ever been riding a sensitive horse and kicked them a little to hard and instead of them going they stop and throw their head up or step backwards? It is too much pressure on them. I think you should try to get a different trainer or tell the one you've got to TONE it down a little and see how that works. If she is not willing to work with you, she is NOT a the trainer for you. Now this is just MY opinion but I think you should sit down and look up some reputable places to have a good solid 30 days of foundation training put on her by a professional, and reputable facility where you can CALL and talk to customers as well as make surprise visits on training sessions with chance. I think she is a little too green for someone non-professional to handle. She needs gentle but clear handling, patience and consistency. I think whips put too much pressure on her causing her to react in the way she does. When she is getting scared, get her away from you. The last thing you want is to be standing next to a scared frustrated 1000lb animal with nothing but self preservation in mind.

    I think your best options would be and in this order:

    1. Sit down with your trainer. Tell her you think she should take it easy on her, put the whips away for a change. Chance should not be getting that out of control without being provoked by something and I feel it may be the whips.
    2. Change your current trainer to someone else if she is not willing to try something new. If trainers do not try something new, they are generally not good trainers. They should be able to change and flex their ideas to conform to different personalities of the horses.
    3. Have her sent to a professional, reputable (KIND!) trainer with GOOD SOLID resources for at least 30 days of SOLID ground training.
    4. I think your last option should be to sell her and find a more suitable horse. Probably one that is already broke to ride with a good SOLID foundation and is bellow a five on the temperament scale. I would be way more than willing to help you find a good calm horse, I'm just not the best at picking out a good conformation.
         
        04-10-2008, 04:20 PM
      #37
    Green Broke
    I KNOW she isnt to much for me! And Im not a green rider ty.. and she's been used as beginer riding she needs to get back into the swing of things! I now have a parelli instructor that is going to help me! I have trained green horses before! I WILL NOT sell her im sticking with this and this weekend if she takes a whip out on chance it will be stop immeditaly im going to start all over with her. I know I can do this! Im asking you guys this please don't tell me that she's to much or sell her get a broke horse! She is broke she's herd bound and needs to learn respect for me and I don't let her nip she's getting better at this I know you guys mean well but idk. She's green im not! I have train horses before im soon going to help start a colt and I have ridden for ever [not litteraly :P] but I sorta need more support from then you guys telling me she's to much. I know when a horse is to much for me I've had that exsperience.
         
        04-10-2008, 04:25 PM
      #38
    Started
    We ARE trying to support you, but we are all just concerned for you and Chance. Whatever has been happening obviously isn't working. You need to change SOMETHING.

    You said you have a Parelli Instructor helping you.......who is the Instructor? Are you going to a clinic? How is he/she helping you?
         
        04-10-2008, 04:29 PM
      #39
    Green Broke
    Im getting in touch with someone who goes to clinics and things and she will be keeping in touch and watch videos and come visit me once and awhile so see how everything. I told her whats going on and how I've been trying to handle things and she's says I've been doing pretyt good on my part but my instuctor needs to be talked to. She is a lvl 4! The parelli dvds are coming in 3 days can't wait. I know you guys are concerned and I know you mean well. And its working cause she is getting better with me little by little We both know we need a change
         
        04-10-2008, 04:35 PM
      #40
    Yearling
    By my post in saying to sell her I was saying if all of the above fails that is the next step I would take if I were in your position. I'm glad you are having an instructor come and help. :)
         

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