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Clicker training resources wanted

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        11-12-2012, 12:30 AM
      #21
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HippoLogic    
    Ah, wonderful! Some other interested clicker people! Great! I am new to this forum, since I recently emigrated to Canada. And I love to see other people using clicker training.

    More usefull sites with lots of information are:

    The Clicker Center
    http://www.clickertraining.com/files/
    Stale Cheerios: Horse Clicker Training
    Hannah Dawson Equine | Horse Clicker Training (also online courses)
    Feb default.html

    I also teach clicker training (http:hippologic.nl). ;) I love it! You can achieve so quickly, so much. If you have a few skills. But it can be learned. My horse loves it too. It is more a two way communication. I like it. You have to be very observant to your horses behaviour and I learned so much since I began in 1999. And every day I am learning more.
    Thank you!
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        11-12-2012, 12:36 AM
      #22
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PunksTank    
    Including being safer and "handier" - whatever that's supposed to mean.
    Handy means a horse that'll go where you ask, as fast or slow as you ask. Do many jobs like halter-breaking colts or handling a cow on a rope or sorting, pulling a load, having a nice way of going with a good handle. A horse that moves responsively for you whether you're in the saddle or on the ground.

    It really isnt worth the time arguing with someone like me. I just think the tried and true ways that were around before pre-packaged horse treats and fanny packs

    Cc4
         
        11-12-2012, 01:42 AM
      #23
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
    Handy means a horse that'll go where you ask, as fast or slow as you ask. Do many jobs like halter-breaking colts or handling a cow on a rope or sorting, pulling a load, having a nice way of going with a good handle. A horse that moves responsively for you whether you're in the saddle or on the ground.

    It really isnt worth the time arguing with someone like me. I just think the tried and true ways that were around before pre-packaged horse treats and fanny packs

    Cc4
    Sure....for working cows :) not everyone works cows or finds that handy or useful. It would be completely useless to me and many others. I get that you like your thing with horses but that doesn't make everything that is not your thing useless.
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        11-12-2012, 10:30 AM
      #24
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
    Handy means a horse that'll go where you ask, as fast or slow as you ask. Do many jobs like halter-breaking colts or handling a cow on a rope or sorting, pulling a load, having a nice way of going with a good handle. A horse that moves responsively for you whether you're in the saddle or on the ground.

    It really isnt worth the time arguing with someone like me. I just think the tried and true ways that were around before pre-packaged horse treats and fanny packs

    Cc4

    Personally I don't use a clicker or a fanny pack, I make a smooch sound with my lips - so I don't have to carry around an extra thing. I don't use pre-packaged treats, I use either hay stretcher or the grain they'd be getting in their meals, or tiny slices of carrots. I keep them in my pocket while we work.
    You don't need to change your opinions on the matter - but don't go ruining for other people more willing to look into newer and sometimes better methods of working with animals.

    Fun you should say this "Handy means a horse that'll go where you ask, as fast or slow as you ask. Do many jobs like halter-breaking colts or handling a cow on a rope or sorting, pulling a load, having a nice way of going with a good handle. A horse that moves responsively for you whether you're in the saddle or on the ground."
    Those are the simplest skills that clicker training teaches. I don't need to make my horse stay with me, because she wants to be with me. If I walk around she's walking along beside me - if I jog she trots, if I all out run, she'll canter. From the simplest of yielding skills to the most advanced riding maneuvers all can be taught with CT.
    Right now I've just backed my mare, she's learning to move off leg pressure, so I'll use this as an example.
    I squeeze my legs and tell her "walk on" which is a cue she knows on the ground. When she walks on I relieve my leg pressure and give a click - then she turns her head so I can treat her. Each time I ask for a few more steps of walk after the initial squeeze before I offer the click. Soon she won't need treats for any walking skills as we'll be moving on to trotting, then cantering. She already knows steering from our line-driving, so she no longer gets clicks and treats for that.
    All CT is is adding an additional positive reinforcement for the act - beyond just a release of pressure. It makes horses want to find the answer just a little bit more, and I find you need a whole lot less pressure to get it.
         
        11-14-2012, 09:00 AM
      #25
    Trained
    I was given an Amazon gift card and I want to buy a book on clicker training. Any specific recommendations? I'm also getting the horse agility book.
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        11-14-2012, 09:04 PM
      #26
    Trained
    Bump
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        11-16-2012, 12:15 PM
      #27
    Foal
    I actually find that a lot of power can be found when you don't combine pressure and release but instead develop behaviors entirely off free shaping and targeting. Of course non-escalating pressure is a handy tool as well, but I would encourage people to find some behaviors to teach without any use of pressure at all! It's a great experience! Also if you ever end up with a horse that has experienced a lot of pressure in the past combining both methods can be confusing or frustrating for them. Those horses need to feel like they could say no for a while.
    As for negativity over clicker training, welcome to the world of positive reinforcement ;p you will learn to be a stronger person who walks their own path if you go with this method. Part of the problem I think is that for someone (mostly more experienced trainers or riders especially) to admit to themselves that if positive reinforcement works so well then everything they've been doing is wrong. That's a hard pill to swallow. It was for me anyway. I came from a past of natural horsemanship, pressure and release, reining, competition, etc. but the horse world behind the scenes was so ugly and the treatment of the horses was so poor that my choice became to change my outlook or give up entirely. I'm glad I chose to change my outlook :)
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        11-16-2012, 04:25 PM
      #28
    Started
    WildCat - can I just say you inspire me?
    I love your video on youtube.

    You're right about pressure and release. So far the skills my horse and pony know are 'come here' 'back up' (my mare's only got a few steps but my pony will go all day!) my mare is developing a really solid 'stand' so that even if I keep going she stops with the word, both of them target the end of a crop, which my pony uses to do obstacles, the pony targets a small foot ball (we're working on fetch but it's a bit big for his mouth). And now! Most excitingly I've started my mare under saddle!
    The only skills I've needed to use pressure/release+CT was for giving to the 'bit' (I use an indian hackamore, which was her bitless choice) I've also got her giving to a french link full cheek on the ground but I backed her in the IH. Just skills I feel she should know how to handle if I ever die and she needs to go to a normal horse person. And yielding to pressure on her hip, shoulder and side - also skills I feel she should know if someone who doesn't know her ever finds they need to move a part of her over. I want her to know what to do with pressure and be able to do everything like any other horse, plus more.

    But most of the skills haven't required any pressure, when I was teaching her to stand still just changing my body position put her back in the right spot.

    I wanted to add, the one truly awesome thing I love about my horses sense I've started CT is that they are both so eager to learn!! My mare doesn't get overwhelmed or upset as easily, she's completely focused on me and is trying to figure out exactly what she needs to do to get that click! I love to watch her brain work trying to solve the puzzle!
         
        11-16-2012, 06:25 PM
      #29
    Foal
    Thats awesome! You are completely on the right track :) I agree with your sentiment on the bit and I do the same (also with tying hard, etc.). One interesting way around teaching with pressure is to teach the behavior you want using shaping and targeting and then build the traditional cue in as simply a cue. For example, I teach mine to follow a target around left and right (you can add verbal as well!) then add the rein in later as a cue. What ends up happening is they become super light and you never have to actually pull the rein. Every once in a while, especially in a distracting environment a little pressure is necessary, but when you can actually teach the foundation lesson with all positive reinforcement it has some great results! Both methods really do work so long as your horse is enjoying it :) after all, it isn't the trainer who dictates what is "pressure", it's the horse! Some horses find an aggressive step in their direction to be too much pressure while others are completely happy to have a little touch guiding them around :)
    PunksTank likes this.
         
        11-16-2012, 10:22 PM
      #30
    Yearling
    Dancing, I really like http://www.amazon.com/The-Click-That-Teaches-Step-By-Step/dp/0970406509 by Alexandra Kurland. It has lots of pictures and is step by step.

    One thing I wish I had noticed earlier is to alternate between lessons that teach the horse to be still and lessons that teach the horse to move. My mare is very forward and I spent too much time in lessons on movement and had to switch my focus and spend extra time on lessons on being still (stand, ground tie, giving me your foot, letting me move your foot, head down, flex, etc.)

    I do +R when its rainy or I only have 10 minutes. I have to say, it has made my horses better partners all around. My pushy horses are more respectful. My people-sour KMSH is sweet now, and my reactive mare is calm and likes to learn. And my silly appaloosa gelding (one of the pushy ones) loves to play fetch.

    You will have a lot of fun!
    PunksTank likes this.
         

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