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Confused why so much constriant USA horses?

This is a discussion on Confused why so much constriant USA horses? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-16-2009, 11:56 AM
    It sounds like your horses really adore you and you sound like a good horse person, and I respect you for that. But bits and cross ties being somehow cruel? I have to completely disagree. Any bit is cruel when in the wrong hands, but with a mindful rider, they don't cause the horse any discomfort. And EVERYBODY cross ties their horses. If I didn't tie my guys, they'd go nosing around the barn and getting into mischief (particularly raiding the hay pile).

    And needing a halter to catch your horse? How is that bad? How else are you supposed to lead them? Sure, I could throw a lead rope around Victor's neck and he'd walk just fine, but halters are just easier. And safer and more secure. Everybody uses them. And apparently they don't hurt the horses. Amazing. My horses come up to me in the pasture and they nicker when they see me coming. It seems like they're fond of me, despite the nasty halters and cross ties.
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        04-16-2009, 12:06 PM
    Ok,KNEW I would get anti results!
    1 - re sitting on my horse's head after he came over on me, I did not acually sit my butt on him, I laid myself over his head, stroked him etc He came to me as untouchable, uncontrolled rearing. That time was the last time he ever reared.
    Um - what do you not understand that at the gate and calling the horse to be groomed and saddled up with out being tied up? Simple!! I call him, he canters to me, he stands while I brush him and pick out his hooves, I bridle and saddle him up.
    What can you not get?
    Sol and I have a special relationship. My son's pony (only new) I do have to tie up to groom and saddle up, but only lead rope to twine on the fence.
    Last time I had to use cross ties was with Racehorses worth millions, not everyday horses!
    I have worked with Polo Ponies worth thousands, and Hunting Horses. NEVER have we had to cross tie!
    Perhaps some people do not have a relationship with thier horses like I do, and want to? It is simple, spend time with your beautiful animal, they have feelings like you do!
        04-16-2009, 12:16 PM
    Everything I've EVER read or heard of natural horsemanship says that they don't have the same feelings humans do. That people always think their horses are going to have human feelings when they don't. They have horse feelings, the kind carried by a prey animal that live in heards.
        04-16-2009, 12:19 PM
    You forgot to mention the fact that you supposedly were the first person to retain Standardbred trotters to canter.

    Tying, leading and riding horses with bits is not harsh or cruel in the slightest.
    I do agree harsh bits in the wrong hand is horrible. But used by the right person, no bits are too harsh. Saddlery shops wouldn't sell cruel bits, would they?!

    I disagree with most of your views and opinions.
        04-16-2009, 12:23 PM
    Jezz, I didn't mean to catch a horse with a halter is bad, I mean't leaving a halter on to catch, as so many accidents can happen!
    And yes any bit is bad in a horse's mouth in the wrong hands. I use a snaffle bit, but hardly use on my older fellow, as he reacts to my voice, and shift in the seat. My 3 yr pony however needs teaching.
    In the early 1990's Hackamores were banned in New Zealand because of misuse (horses nose bone broken). I bought one of the last ones (sheep wool underneath) but I had already broken in my colt in a bitless bridle (he was gelded later) and I had already trained him commands. He was like my Solli is now. Any bit, I agree, if used wrong detroys a horse. Even a Hackamore! I loved them, my fellow would love it too, but Illegal here too in Aus!
        04-16-2009, 12:38 PM
    I understand your curiosity, not your approach. People who come to forums like this are looking for a couple of things, 1 fellowship with like minded people and 2 help with a problem. When I first started reading horse forums (not just this one) it seemed everyone was having problems with their horses. Not true, its just that this is a place to ask those questions so there seems to be a lot.
    I don't think there is a black and white "everyone" when it comes to what you can do with your horse. I for instance have never crossed tied my horse but I do use a curb bit. My horses will come to me in the pasture and all come running when I whistle.
    Horses aren't lap pets, they are big sometimes dangerous animals. I see some pretty stupid stuff in photos on the net. People grooming horses barefoot or in sandals. I think that's pretty silly behavior, but someone else will think that's perfectly fine. It all comes down to whats right for you and your horse.
        04-16-2009, 01:02 PM
    Originally Posted by hectornikki    
    In the early 1990's Hackamores were banned in New Zealand because of misuse (horses nose bone broken)
    Can you provide a credible source to back that statement up?
        04-16-2009, 01:06 PM
    <P>You can read all you want, but unless you actually do, like I have for 20yrs, Rehabillitating abused horses&nbsp;do not judge!</P>
    <P>&nbsp;Yes, I was instrumental in starting the Riding Standardbred Association in New Zealand, spread to Australia to the extent they have Ridden Stb Classes at the biggest show in Australia!</P>
    <P>&nbsp;Long story, but started with my handsome STB straight mover, I trained Dressage, getting beaten by a chestnut that dished!&nbsp; in a show Class.My boy Guy also won that day&nbsp;top class Showjumping against an International Showjumper - my boy was only 14.3hh! Jumping 4ft!</P>
    <P>&nbsp;I got the angry re showing, wrote to a NZ&nbsp;horse Mag, went from there!</P>
    <P>&nbsp;He could clear 5"6!!</P>
    <P>&nbsp; </P>
        04-16-2009, 01:12 PM
    Super Moderator
    I had a hard time reading your last entry hectronikki.

    You have to understand the responses that you are receiving as your original post was quite judgemental. The way that it is written is basically accusing every member of this forum as being abusive and rough with there horses. If you truley have the 20 years of experience that you are stating them you know that there are many, many methods of training and caring for horses that are not abusivive or harsh and they can be used to achieve the same end result.

    I am not sure what your overall goal was in your original post. If it was to cause anger and discontent then you gotten what you were looking for. If it was to educate people on a way of horsemanship that you feel is superior or the better way, then you need to rethink your input and resubmit.
        04-16-2009, 01:16 PM
    I, like Newheart, would like to see your source regarding the illegality of hackamores in New Zealand. Are you trying to say that they banned them at shows? Seems fairly impractical to make a certain type of bit illegal in an entire country.

    I also don't really get your beef with cross ties. I doubt your experience as you seem to have no understanding of what they are.

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