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Correct movement - engaging his back

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  • Correct movement in a horse hindend

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    11-18-2012, 06:15 PM
  #21
Green Broke
I just watch Feb video again and the part that came up and said pull and release a few times. You seem to loose contact at the release and then when he tries to drop his head which is what you are asking him to do he bangs into your hands because you are not following him downward. That is when he is getting "behind the bit" and overflexed, behind the vertical. That is a hard one to break so I would be very carefull of that one.
     
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    11-18-2012, 06:17 PM
  #22
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by churumbeque    
In the Feb 2012 she looked like an Aabian with a normal headset. I think she used her body more correctly in that video and wasn't heavy. Long and low shouldn't be heavy on the forehand as it should have the rear pushing. I will look for some photo's. I would work on a relaxed walk that she did a good overstride and get her rear working. When they are long they should be stepping further not short.
He was pretty green in that video, but he does move that way naturally, just a little more responsive and trustworthy now (at least, when he hasn't had 2 months off and decides he's a crazy Arabian lol).

I believe my biggest issue is that I can't really tell when he's rounded, lifting his back, and has his hind end engaged. Ultimately, that was my goal when setting out to work on this. Maybe he already does this naturally? I will try to ride him more "normal" for us and then post another video to see what you think. That way, you have a current idea of how he's usually moving. He's always walked slow and, to me, awkward-looking as is seen in the video, though not necessarily with his head down. What is a good way to get him to move forward more without running into a higher head or trotting? I believe he was so slow at all gaits because I was asking him to drop his head - he usually doesn't move so slow, except at the walk. Thus, when the head comes down (in my attempt to get him to round up and use his back), so does his speed.
     
    11-18-2012, 06:20 PM
  #23
Super Moderator
NOw I have to reread your posts to think of good answers. Sorry I got snitty.\

I don't have time til tonight or tomorrow.

Suffice it to say, that in general, I think you have the right idea and are doing quite well for doing this all on your own. It isn't going to be perfect the first few times, but it's change that you are after. So, if there is SOME change, then you are doing somehting effective.
     
    11-18-2012, 06:22 PM
  #24
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by churumbeque    
I just watch Feb video again and the part that came up and said pull and release a few times. You seem to loose contact at the release and then when he tries to drop his head which is what you are asking him to do he bangs into your hands because you are not following him downward. That is when he is getting "behind the bit" and overflexed, behind the vertical. That is a hard one to break so I would be very carefull of that one.
So would you suggest going back to asking him to collect like I was doing, but keeping contact? I was taught to completely release and ultimately ride with reins dragging, but the things I found in the last few days suggested to keep a "drag" on the reins so that contact is maintained, but you still have a release. In addition, someone suggested to simply put my hands where they need to be and allow him to figure it out, and that doing this at a trot was best because their heads don't move so much as the back-and-forth of a walk or the roll of a canter.

I had no idea what I was really doing in that video - you might have also noticed the comment about the draw reins, with I will not go back to because, while his brief "draw rein" lesson from another rider at the barn made him soften up, I don't think it helped any with how he carries himself.
     
    11-18-2012, 06:26 PM
  #25
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
NOw I have to reread your posts to think of good answers. Sorry I got snitty.\

I don't have time til tonight or tomorrow.

Suffice it to say, that in general, I think you have the right idea and are doing quite well for doing this all on your own. It isn't going to be perfect the first few times, but it's change that you are after. So, if there is SOME change, then you are doing somehting effective.
Haha, I'm not sure what to think - he was a completely different horse doing that exercise, and on a very windy day at that! (hence why there's no audio lol). I'll keep doing my research and recording my progress for comments. I think next ride (probably tomorrow) I'm going to do a little trotting how he usually does so you all can tell me how his normal movement looks and if I need to other adjustments. Again, I'm not sure what he's doing is wrong - I just know I've never done anything to teach him to engage his hind end or round up. However, I do still want to achieve true collection since I think it's just a good thing to do.
     
    11-18-2012, 06:27 PM
  #26
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillybean19    
He was pretty green in that video, but he does move that way naturally, just a little more responsive and trustworthy now (at least, when he hasn't had 2 months off and decides he's a crazy Arabian lol).

I believe my biggest issue is that I can't really tell when he's rounded, lifting his back, and has his hind end engaged. Ultimately, that was my goal when setting out to work on this. Maybe he already does this naturally? I will try to ride him more "normal" for us and then post another video to see what you think. That way, you have a current idea of how he's usually moving. He's always walked slow and, to me, awkward-looking as is seen in the video, though not necessarily with his head down. What is a good way to get him to move forward more without running into a higher head or trotting? I believe he was so slow at all gaits because I was asking him to drop his head - he usually doesn't move so slow, except at the walk. Thus, when the head comes down (in my attempt to get him to round up and use his back), so does his speed.
You urge him on and when he breaks gait you correct him. You might try some verbal cues like step up. I would also work on moving your hips and get some control with gaits that way also. He can tell the difference when you are ready to trot. You can't have a short rein or he won't be able to step up under himself. So work on letting the bit out a little at a time with out loosing contact and that should help get forward with out throwing him away.
     
    11-18-2012, 08:28 PM
  #27
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by churumbeque    
You urge him on and when he breaks gait you correct him. You might try some verbal cues like step up. I would also work on moving your hips and get some control with gaits that way also. He can tell the difference when you are ready to trot. You can't have a short rein or he won't be able to step up under himself. So work on letting the bit out a little at a time with out loosing contact and that should help get forward with out throwing him away.
I'll give this a try tomorrow and see how we do, weather permitting. I'll even record it if I can. I have the option of doing this in the round pen, in the all-dirt pasture with a track (almost as good as an arena!), or out on the trail. Today, we went for a bareback walk on the trail in the sidepull, and he started tossing his head. Definitely sticking to the bit - things went way better and it's easy to get the contact I need. He likes to move out a lot more once we're out of the round pen, so maybe I'll use that to my advantage, but then again he's also not as focused on me anymore. He did finally calm down and behave for the last 10 minutes of our ride, so that was good.

Using all the suggestions, I'm going to try and work on my riding and getting him to have more impulsion while lowering his head. I'm going to try keeping his poll below his withers (I read that somewhere, probably on the classical dressage site), but not necessarily on the ground. I guess we'll see what happens and I'll play it by ear!
     
    11-18-2012, 08:29 PM
  #28
Yearling
How do I communicate/refine the difference between a "slow down" signal (particularly with the reins), and asking him to drop his head? It seems this is where he's getting a little confused when we're trying to add impulsion but still stay in control.
     
    11-18-2012, 08:53 PM
  #29
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillybean19    
I'll give this a try tomorrow and see how we do, weather permitting. I'll even record it if I can. I have the option of doing this in the round pen, in the all-dirt pasture with a track (almost as good as an arena!), or out on the trail. Today, we went for a bareback walk on the trail in the sidepull, and he started tossing his head. Definitely sticking to the bit - things went way better and it's easy to get the contact I need. He likes to move out a lot more once we're out of the round pen, so maybe I'll use that to my advantage, but then again he's also not as focused on me anymore. He did finally calm down and behave for the last 10 minutes of our ride, so that was good.

Using all the suggestions, I'm going to try and work on my riding and getting him to have more impulsion while lowering his head. I'm going to try keeping his poll below his withers (I read that somewhere, probably on the classical dressage site), but not necessarily on the ground. I guess we'll see what happens and I'll play it by ear!
You could also do it free lunging in the round pen and get him walking good.
     
    11-18-2012, 08:58 PM
  #30
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillybean19    
How do I communicate/refine the difference between a "slow down" signal (particularly with the reins), and asking him to drop his head? It seems this is where he's getting a little confused when we're trying to add impulsion but still stay in control.
For dropping his head I have heard of 2 methods. 1 which I like is you hold 1 rein steady and (strong halfhalt) pull and release the other(if going in a circle pull the inside rein) till he drops. The key is when he drops you have to go with him so that you follow him with out loosing contact and not pull back to bump him. The other method is seesaw and doing the same thing when he drops.
When stopping you should be sitting with your seat and if needed pull back with both reins or some horses are trained to stop when the reins are actually dropped. Also pay attention that he doesn't over flex and if he gets his nose out just push him forward with seat and legs to get him to round up in the bit.
     

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