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Correct movement - engaging his back

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        11-19-2012, 01:29 AM
      #41
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    before I type anything, teach me how to use "mulitquote". I STILL can't use it correctly. I am the least technically adept mod here.
    When you hit tie quote button, the text will come up with a [ Q you O T E = t I n y l I n y ; 1 7 6 3 6 7 0 ] before it, and [ / Q you O T E ] afterward. All you have to do is make sure the first one is before the text you want to quote, and end the quote with the one with the /. You have to have this BEFORE and AFTER each section you want to quote separately, and then type what you want to in between those and they will not be in the quote.
         
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        11-19-2012, 01:38 AM
      #42
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    See sawing is a bad shortcut. Don't go there. It will create a resistant horse. You are "asking" nea, "inviting" the horse to lower his head and stretch forward, Not sawing on the bars of his mouth so he gives tot he bit (which teaches bit avoidance). As for a physical way to invite the horse to reach forward and down, consider the softest "milking" of the inside rein while the outside rein is steady but not frozen stiff.
    Yeah, that seems to be what I've gathered and I've stopped doing the "see-sawing" thing and started holding my hands steady where they are supposed to be. It's worked a lot better and I haven't see-sawed for a long time.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    As another poster said, you must learn to follow the horse down and not bump them inthe mouth. That's why you do a ton of this at the walk before ever doing it at the trot.
    I can see your point. Though, I did read on the classical dressage site that I posted that the trot is best because the head stays still rather than rocking back and forth like it does at a walk. I'm open to any suggestions, though!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    In the beginning, do your L and L only at walk, then when you trot, do as bsms and go light on the seat to encourage forward movement and let the horse move out as pleases them. Work on doing that and after a bit, take up the loose reins and ask them into a stop THROUGH a walk.

    Yes, practice having him stop from a trot THROUGH the walk. And work on getting him to come to a stop , but be ready to go forward again.

    This involves having him soft on the bit, and ever so gently rocked back on his haunches so he is ready to accelerate to a walk or trot from a halt.

    That's a whole 'nother post, though.
    Do you mean ask him to slow down for a walk before asking him to completely stop? And as for being light in the seat and urging him forward, I'm feeling much more confident that I know what I'm supposed to do, so I'm excited to give it a try tomorrow.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    this is a bried video that has some good visual info in it regarding lifting the hroses back by use of Long and Low.
    That's one of the videos I'd watched to try and understand!
         
        11-19-2012, 01:52 AM
      #43
    Super Moderator
    It IS a lot to understand, and doing it on your own, with no one to show you must be overwhelming. YOu are a brave soul.

    I mentioned the slowing him down through the walk to the halt becuase you pointed out how he stops so abruptly that you get thrown forward. That's him falling on his front hand. If you weren't holding his head with the reins, he might fall on his own nose..
    This the stopping through the walk is to keep him thinking "forward" even though he is coming to a halt. So, insted of him just falling out of the forward push of his hind end, like it suddenly stops propelling him and he just deflates, you want to slow his front end but keep his hind kind of steipping up and under him so that he "steps into the halt" rather than fall into it. Get it? It's a bit like squeezing the accordian a bitfrom one side.

    Don't pull his front end backwards towards the squeeze from the back. Rather you kind of firm up your hands and your abs to hold his front back and you push his hind up and under himself to meet the firm front of your hands and core (abs). Squeezing the accordian from one side only.
         
        11-19-2012, 02:17 AM
      #44
    Yearling
    The accordion example was great - I'll definitely try implementing these stops into my riding. I am seriously counting down the days until I have my own trainer! Of course, with all you excellent folks, maybe I won't need one after all! *joke*
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        11-19-2012, 02:38 AM
      #45
    Trained
    Just wanted to add that this thread is super. Why can't I find a trainer who explains things like this instead of just giving me a vague set of instructions?
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        11-19-2012, 03:46 AM
      #46
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jillybean19    
    The accordion example was great - I'll definitely try implementing these stops into my riding. I am seriously counting down the days until I have my own trainer! Of course, with all you excellent folks, maybe I won't need one after all! *joke*
    Posted via Mobile Device

    Nothing can replace a good trainer.

    Your horse is a nice horse and has a lot of potential. Doing these sorts of "dressage" excersizes are good for any horse, even if you never ride dressage. And, they build your riding skill, too.

    One thing about Arabs is that they are often masters of moving themselves along in energy conserving manners, thus them being great for endurance, I suppose. They can tend to move by pulling more with their shoulders than pushing with the hind end. I don't know if that is a bad thing in endurance or not, but in dressage it is.
    My friend has the world's cutest arab. He is very "conservative" of energy (read "lazy") but she has worked on this and made him much more forward. I realize this is not your horse's problem; forwardness. But she did a lot of hillwork , and a lot of acceleration.

    Hillwork is pretty obvious as to why it's beneficial for a horse's hind end, (though cantering up hills won't do as much as either trotting or walking up them does. And don't forget going down hills. Going down at a walk, stopping periodically, on the way down , and asking the hrose to back UP the hill three or four steps is also a great way to improve the hind end and the abdomin muscles. Abdomin muscles strenght is paramount in being able to lift the back, afterall, the back is lifted whenthe abs contract, not when the back muscles contract. THAT causes the back to hollow out.)

    Acceleration can mean going faster within a gait, or it can mean changes of gait. Going straight from a halt into a trot, you will kind of jump forward, right? That builds the hind end and will lift the front end , as a speed boat lifts in the water when you accelerate.
    YOu do, however, once again, have to have a connection to the bit so that the energy that comes from the acceleration doesn't all just fall out the front but is contained by the contact to the bit, and transformed into "carrying" energy, meaning "vertical" energy that lifts the rider up. THAT is one of the fundamentals of dressage; the transformation of horizontal energy into vertical energy.
         
        11-19-2012, 03:50 AM
      #47
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jillybean19    
    When you hit tie quote button, the text will come up with a [ Q you O T E = t I n y l I n y ; 1 7 6 3 6 7 0 ] before it, and [ / Q you O T E ] afterward. All you have to do is make sure the first one is before the text you want to quote, and end the quote with the one with the /. You have to have this BEFORE and AFTER each section you want to quote separately, and then type what you want to in between those and they will not be in the quote.

    Sorry, but that did not compute. I still don't get it.
         
        11-19-2012, 10:28 AM
      #48
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DancingArabian    
    Just wanted to add that this thread is super. Why can't I find a trainer who explains things like this instead of just giving me a vague set of instructions?
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Not many trainers know how to do it. I was taking lessons from 1 that didn't know what a half halt was.
         
        11-19-2012, 10:59 AM
      #49
    Trained
    When you try to adapt training ideas from dressage, please remember that the goal of dressage is a horse who moves in a collected gait. A collected gait is a lot of work for the horse, and it also covers ground very slowly. If your goal is endurance riding, you do not want a collected gait!
    "THAT is one of the fundamentals of dressage; the transformation of horizontal energy into vertical energy."
    Correct statement. But if you want to do endurance racing, you want horizontal movement, not vertical. Any energy the horse spends lifting you and lifting himself is energy not spent moving across the ground. That doesn't mean you want a strung out, hollow-backed horse flailing away, but the degree of 'collection' you want is minimal. As a life-long jogger, if not an endurance racer, the goal of a long distance runner is to cover the most ground with the least effort. Dressage can be thought of as a sport that wants to cover the least ground with the most effort. That isn't wrong, and dressage is an admirable sport, but its goals are very different from endurance racing.
         
        11-19-2012, 11:09 AM
      #50
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsms    
    When you try to adapt training ideas from dressage, please remember that the goal of dressage is a horse who moves in a collected gait. A collected gait is a lot of work for the horse, and it also covers ground very slowly. If your goal is endurance riding, you do not want a collected gait!
    "THAT is one of the fundamentals of dressage; the transformation of horizontal energy into vertical energy."
    Correct statement. But if you want to do endurance racing, you want horizontal movement, not vertical. Any energy the horse spends lifting you and lifting himself is energy not spent moving across the ground. That doesn't mean you want a strung out, hollow-backed horse flailing away, but the degree of 'collection' you want is minimal. As a life-long jogger, if not an endurance racer, the goal of a long distance runner is to cover the most ground with the least effort. Dressage can be thought of as a sport that wants to cover the least ground with the most effort. That isn't wrong, and dressage is an admirable sport, but its goals are very different from endurance racing.
    Correct, and I do not plan to ride dressage on the endurance trail. However, I believe a little dressage can be beneficial for any horse and I would like to become a better rider. He has no problem with moving horizontally and will trot along at 14mph if I let him. Were going to focus on fundamentals for the winter so we can be a better endurance team in the spring
    Posted via Mobile Device
    tinyliny likes this.
         

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