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  • Good songs to ride a bucking horse to
  • Jack vance horse trainer

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    12-13-2011, 04:24 AM
  #61
Started
Never ha this happen. Had a horse buck though and I just stayed calm even when ended up on the ground. Your horse will panic/freakout if you do.
     
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    12-13-2011, 02:14 PM
  #62
Foal
Crow hopping

US in Equus
Total words 103,865
81 Illustrations
Author: Jack Vance

Copyright 2001

Why Horses Buck?
I think you will find your resolution in these writings.
The professional rodeo bucking horse that is a superior athlete, good at his work and likes it, is what every rough stock breeder is trying to breed for. The rough stock rodeo rider hopes he will draw that kind of bucking horse in the competition and will be able to stay on his back for 8 seconds.
Although horses in general buck out of fear, anger, pain, belligerence, and fun, I do not think the professional bucking horse bucks out of fear or pain. I think their bucking is the reaction to what they feel is a nuisance, and they become angry and belligerent at it. (We all have had a nuisance in our lives at one time or another.) To some horses, the speed, power, and flight of the bucking may trigger innate emotions, often called on in the wild to maintain survival, which may incite them to buck harder. The cowboy rolling his spurs on his shoulders is not something to sooth him, but to incite him.
I think some professional bucking horses, feels the flank strap is a nuisance as well is the cowboy. L think they find the bucking exhilarating and fun, so they do what they do best.
The rodeo horse bucks because the flank strap is a stimulus that incites him to buck. It is a stimulus that, on a daily basis, seldom occurs, and is not tolerated. Place a rider on his back, and that is another stimulus that seldom occurs and, again, is not tolerated.
This inconsistent pattern of bucking competition does not allow the horse time to become familiar with and desensitized to the sensations of the two stimuli and the circumstance.
In the first place, the horse does not want or like the sensations of a flank strap on him or the rider on his back. Therefore, he bucks to get rid of it. The horse owner wants the horse to buck the rider off quickly, like in under 8 seconds. The rider wants off the horse also, but only after 8 seconds.
The rider who stays on a horse for more than 8 seconds are sometimes rewarded with an equine limo ride to expedite their safe departure from the horse’s back, and other amenities such as prize money.
When the cowboy is off the horse’s back, whether he is picked up by one of the pick-up men, (equine limo driver), or bucked off, the horse often continues to buck because the flank strap (stimulus) is still on. One of the remaining pick-up men ride alongside the bucking horse, pulling the release on the flank strap so it comes off. The horse thinks, Aha! I knew I could get rid of that thing and he quits bucking.
This is training, and each time this lesson occurs, the horse is learning through repetition that bucking is the resolution to what is bothering him. The horse owner is happy, the horse is happy, and the rider is happy, if he stayed on for 8 seconds.
The truth is if the rider was not bound by P.R.C.A rules, there are some rough stock riders that are good enough to ride the horse until it is quits bucking. If each time the horse is ridden, the rider was permitted to stay on; the horse would learn bucking is not getting him what he wants, which is the rider off his back. Therefore, the horse, being efficient with his energy, is not going to waste it on activity that does not benefit him, so he would quit bucking. This would ruin the horse for rodeo sport.
I would think a good bucking horse would buck again once rested. This theory is not set in stone for all horses. Some will buck every time you get on them, they just do not want or like us on their back.
Some domestic horses buck when they are first turned out after being up in a stall overnight or for long periods. This is sheer joy, expressed with sheer energy.
They also buck from fear of what they do not understand, and anger brought on by fear or pain. If I remove Pain, Fear, and Anger, through good stewardship and training, most horses will not buck after the initial familiarizing and desensitizing period.
This bucking conditioning of rodeo horses is just the opposite of what we as riding/driving horse trainers want from the horse. We want the horse comfortable, trusting, quiet, and confident in our company.
End: Bucking horses are for the Professionals:
     
    12-13-2011, 02:36 PM
  #63
Weanling
I know it's talked about a bit earlier in the thread, but I just wanted to mention that I at one point fell for that Parelli junk. Went and saw him at a clinic and have hated it ever since. I kinda feel stupid for purchasing some of his merchandise...but luckily it wasn't much haha.

My opinion quickly changed when he didn't teach even one dang thing at his clinic. It was more or less "This is my horse Fanciful Unicorn Chocolate Kisses Who Farts Rainbows, watch me dance with her!" and then he'd play music and run around with the horse for 20 minutes. -facepalm-

Then his "problem horse" section came up. He tried this awkward thing with a rope wrapped around the horse which ended with him being drug around the area cause he was standing in the coiled rope pile and the horse crashing into panels. He then gave up and put the horse away. He gave up himself and left the arena limping and left his wife in charge. Also the supposed "bad trailer loading horse" was brought in. The lady listed off every bad horse behavior in the book with this horse (spooky, deathly afraid of people, aggressive, etc) even though the entire time he stood quietly in this giant indoor area with tons of clapping people. Not to mention he loaded quietly the first try. -more facepalm-

I've seen Clinton Anderson twice, and he was amazing. Even if you don't like Anderson...he's a million times better than Parelli. Don't know why I ever wasted my time with him.
     
    12-13-2011, 06:06 PM
  #64
Showing
^^"Like" times 1000.
     
    12-13-2011, 11:52 PM
  #65
Foal
He does so because I am boss end of discussion ...

My trainer told me once "that I can consider the horses opinion once it grows thumbs and starts using tools" . That put everything in perspective for me real quick!!
     
    12-13-2011, 11:57 PM
  #66
Foal
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    12-14-2011, 02:34 AM
  #67
Trained
There are a lot of times I consider the horse's opinion. I may overrule it, but I consider it. If I've established, over time, that the horse is a reasonably willing horse, then discomfort or rebellion can be signs of pain or that something is wrong. That is how my Arabian taught me that FQHB saddles have bars that are too long and dig in her loin, or that my cues were inconsistent and confusing her.

Listening to your horse is good horsemanship, IMHO. Letting the horse decide what to do is not.
     
    12-14-2011, 05:11 PM
  #68
Showing
That's exactly right. For the first while I ride a horse, it's what I want, when I want it...BUT, I am very careful to avoid any situations that may be too much for the horse to handle. That way, they just never really learn how to "refuse".

After the initial breaking in stage, I have a pretty good feel for what they are willing to do and why they might balk, then I consider their opinion. It's still my final decision, but I do allow them to give me input about the situation.

There has been several times in my life when a good horse telling me "Eeh, boss, I'm not sure going that way is a good idea" has saved my bacon. Even more times when I hear them say that and ignore it and push on, only to regret it greatly soon after .
     
    12-14-2011, 06:07 PM
  #69
Yearling
Read my signature... Enough said!
     
    12-16-2011, 08:00 AM
  #70
Foal
There has been several times in my life when a good horse telling me "Eeh, boss, I'm not sure going that way is a good idea" has saved my bacon. Even more times when I hear them say that and ignore it and push on, only to regret it greatly soon after .

Good point guys! Smrobs...I love reading your posts they are always full of wisdom and humor...it makes learning that much more enjoyable :)
Thanks again everyone for sharing your experiences!!
     

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