The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Crop or not?

11K views 116 replies 30 participants last post by  iridehorses 
#1 ·
Ok i recently began lessons off a new instructer to the area she is great all arena stuff until we went out cross country.

She DEMANDED i brought a crop out cross country and i was not going out without one. I have never used a crop EVER on this particular horse there is just no need she is so sensitive that iv never kicked her all i do is squeeze.

I explained that to my instructer that i didnt feel comfortable using a stick when it was not needed.
She replied you dont go cross country with out a crop now never mind that iv competed this horse every weekend and yet am to need a crop she is just an eager to please foreward going horse.


The resultant was she only let me jump childrens jumps as there was no point taking a risk with out a crop. This highly insulted me firstly i know my horse and i know her limits if after 4years im yet to need a crop in her i think its pretty safe to say i know how to handle and deal with her.

What would you have done in the situation?? My parents think i should have given in and taken the crop even though it went against my principles and my horses training.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
There is nothing wrong with having a crop with you - you don't have to use it but it's good to know how to handle it. Although your horse may not need it, others you ride may and it's a good aid to be able to call on when you need it. There is nothing cruel about a crop - only the hands of an uneducated rider.
 
#3 ·
I carry a crop on every horse no matter what. It's a sound training principle.

One of my horses (the bay in my album) was extremely sensitive and very brave and forward and never needed it, but I carried it anyway on the off chance that in front of a strange or unfamiliar fence he would suck back behind my leg. It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

So, yes, I think you should have gone ahead and taken one whether you thought you needed it or not. In a perfect world, your instructor should have done a better job of explaining her reasoning to you.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I agree with iride, maura and mac.

If your instructor requires you to carry one, then you carry one. You don't have to use it.

I carry one pretty much every ride, and have for years. I've rarely used it, but once in a great while it comes in handy.

It's merely a tool, not an instrument of torture.

Plus, it's good to learn how to carry one in either hand while riding. It's a skill you may need at some point.
 
#6 ·
I see both points here--why should you have to carry one, but she is the instructor. While I personally think it would have been better to let you go at the CC course on the off chance I was proven right--that you need a crop (as the instructor), its her perrogative to do what she wants, since you're paying for her instruction. If you don't like it, find someone else!
 
#7 ·
Take the crop and stop making a big deal of it.

themacpack-it is a deal to me. I would rather my horse responded instantly off my leg every single time then resorting to a crop.

I do use them on my othere horses as they require one but to me if as the rider you know you dont need certain tools to ride your horse why should they be forced on you?

My horse came from a VERY spoilt back round she never had to do anything she didnt want so originally i have used aids on her but no there not needed and i just dont understand why i MUST use one?

If i was proved wrong that she refused etc etc I would be the first to say ok give me the crop.

BUT 99% of refusals are riders fault so if your horse refused the same fence and you had a crop on your hand chances are you are going to use where as if its not there your first reaction is to change yourself.

Like i dont dislike crops themselves i use both crops and spurs on a lot of my horses but they require the extra aids that was my issue. I have never required them so why use them.

Iv competed everywhere and am yet to need them on this horse.

So what is it with instructers feeling that crops are neccessary to get around somewhere clear?
 
#8 ·
she didnt say you had to use it, just carry it. it is especially good to have on xc, because you need to be sure that your horse is reponding to your aids right when you give them. no one thinks you need to use your crop to have a clear round, but its good to have one just in case you need it.

dont go to war with out your weapons !
 
#9 ·
I know where your all coming from on certain of my horses i take no where with out a crop ever. But if i have competed everyweekned for 3years with no crop and no problem(the instructer knows this) surely i should be able to go into my own cross country course with no crop.

Ok if we went somewhere new and big ye i probably would have humoured her, But in my own house thats ridiculous!!
 
#10 ·
I think it would be one thing if she argued that you had to USE it, but 99% of the time, simply carrying the crop in the first place will cut out any refusals you may have. ESPECIALLY if she comes from a "spoiled" background, why would you take the chance that she might throw a hissy fit and refuse?

Since we're arguing about tools, why use reins, or a bit, or a saddle? If you're really that great of a rider to be arguing about what your instructor tells you to do, go out there with no tack holding onto the mane and see how many jumps you can stay on for.
 
#11 · (Edited)
If you don't want to listen to this instructor, then find another one. That's really the only option you have.

When you're taking lessons from someone you're supposed to be following their instructions, not arguing with them. If you think you know better than this person, why are you wasting their time and your parents' money?
 
#13 ·
What exactly is the point of this? I don't need to use a crop on any of my horses, but when my last instructor asked me to carry one, I had much better things to do than argue with her. There is no harm in carrying a crop so why fuss over it? My dad had a saying when I was growing up that haunts me to this day, "in another 10 years, you will forget all about it, so why bother worrying about it now". Carry the crop, get over yourself, and enjoy the ride! It is not hurting anyone, so when you are riding under someone else, you follow their rules.
 
#14 ·
She is the only instructer available. We have worked together 3times a week now for about a month and get on very well iv never had issues before wiht anything.

But if somebody tells me to use something on my horse for no reason i dont see why i should. Thats like saying put on spurs they dont come inot effect unless you want them. But if there available to you chances are you will use them if you have the first signs of an argument whereas with this particular horse i would rather work through whats could be causing the issues then just forcing her to get on with it.

How many times have you seen a horse refuse blatently because of a rider at a competition and get smacked over the jump. In a stressful situation id rather not have something there on the off chance you could misuse it.

If im paying someone to help me improve my riding and they onnly know my horse a short lenght of time they should also listen to me as well as i know the most about the horse. Unless she can give me a valid reson why i need to carry a crop i honestly just dont see why i should. Her reasoning was that you cant go cross country with out one. That is not reason enough of course you can go with out one i have often enough my horses know there own cross country course in fairness if iv trouble getting around my own course iv no reason to bring her anywhere.
 
#18 ·
She is the only instructer available. We have worked together 3times a week now for about a month and get on very well iv never had issues before wiht anything.

But if somebody tells me to use something on my horse for no reason i dont see why i should.

If im paying someone to help me improve my riding and they onnly know my horse a short lenght of time they should also listen to me as well as i know the most about the horse. Unless she can give me a valid reson why i need to carry a crop i honestly just dont see why i should.
Wow! I read through the whole discussion and I'm sorry but it sounds very very childish. She didn't tell you to USE it on your horse, she told to CARRY one with you just in case, at least how it sounds from your original post. And if you are saying she's a good instructor and everything went so nice then WHY TO SCREW THE RELATIONS with her just because you are being stubborn? :-| A really good instructor (and we have LOTS of different around here) is very hard to find, and sometime it's even harder to find one you get along with well. They are people too and may just turn you down at some point if you don't want to follow what they say, don't respect what they teach, and they have enough customers (and that would be right way to go IMHO).

There is nothing wrong with carrying crop with you, as already mentioned top riders here with very well trained -sensitive- horses keep one just in case. NOONE can force you to use it if it's not needed.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I'll tell y'all what the point of this is; this child thinks she knows more than anyone else.

Youth is curable though, and about the time someone turns 25-30, they've usually had enough knock downs and immersion in real life to realize they're not the fountain of all wisdom, and just maybe someone else has something to teach them. :wink:

Until then though, of course she knows all there is to know about riding and training.

If I were the instructor, I'd tell her parents I wouldn't be back. She's not worth dealing with, with her know-it-all, entitled attitude.

I blame her parents. Sounds like they've forgotten to tell Sweetums that she's not the center of the universe.
 
#106 ·
I'll tell y'all what the point of this is; this child thinks she knows more than anyone else.

Youth is curable though, and about the time someone turns 25-30, they've usually had enough knock downs and immersion in real life to realize they're not the fountain of all wisdom, and just maybe someone else has something to teach them. :wink:

Until then though, of course she knows all there is to know about riding and training.

If I were the instructor, I'd tell her parents I wouldn't be back. She's not worth dealing with, with her know-it-all, entitled attitude.

I blame her parents. Sounds like they've forgotten to tell Sweetums that she's not the center of the universe.
Absolutely agree!! If I was the instructor I would drop the OP the second time she tried to argue about it.
 
#16 ·
Sorry flitterbug we posted the same time. Its more of a rant really. I dont expect things to be forced onto me when i dont want to use them is the point.
Im not arguing with her i questioned her decisions not all horses need encouragement sure having it there is great in a scenario where there is not a chance to school them over the problem fence.

But if i had problems i could schoool her all day over the fence seeing as its in my house. Like id have one if i was away from home all the time in the trailer in case she was in a mood but at home i dont see the need.
 
#85 ·
Sorry flitterbug we posted the same time. Its more of a rant really. I dont expect things to be forced onto me when i dont want to use them is the point.


Then, since you know so much more than your coach, simply quit taking lessons. That's easy....

Im not arguing with her i questioned her decisions not all horses need encouragement sure having it there is great in a scenario where there is not a chance to school them over the problem fence.

You never know what will happen from one moment to the next. It is foolish to purposely be unprepared to deal with issues that may come up. This failure could be dangerous both to you and your horse.

But if i had problems i could schoool her all day over the fence seeing as its in my house. Like id have one if i was away from home all the time in the trailer in case she was in a mood but at home i dont see the need.


Every time there is an unsuccessful attempt to cure a problem, it gets set deeper and deeper. Believe me, I've seen tiny problems turn into huge ones when the rider is unprepared.
I have been training, teaching, showing for more than 35 years. I also require a crop when schooling/riding XC.

When I used to school with Jack LeGoff (in case you are too young to know him, he was a LONG time olympic coach for the eventing team), I clearly remember him saying;

"A good rider ALWAYS carries a crop, and never uses it".

I don't think you know more than he does, though I may be wrong :wink:
 
#17 ·
I agree with everyone else. I can jump my horse fine no crop no spurs, but I take them out with me every time because I never know how he'll react to things. One day he's totally fine with something, the next he spooks at it. It's just how horses are. A prime example. My horse has seen this one water jump before but at our last comp. he did NOT want to go in there! So it was nice having my spurs to go, HEY! and the jump isn't always going to look the same to the horse. you don't go into battle without a gun. But of course you know much better than a person being paid to teach you.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#21 ·
I couldn't understand that last sentence at all. Why are you asking the question if you only want one answer? A crop is to be used as an aide, not a weapon. When I'm on multiple horses per day, spurs are used to clarify my request, to keep communication clear.

You asked everyone's opinion. If I was in your situation and the trainer asked me to carry a crop, I would respect their request whether I would have to use it or not. In the large scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. I wish the biggest thing I had to worry about on any given day was whether or not I should carry a crop.

Also, not to sound full of myself, but I (or any respectable trainer that I know) can read a horse well. If I (or again other trainers) were working with a student 3 days per week for a month, I would be pretty comfortable in how well I know your horse. I usually do a one hour consultation with people and already know their horse better than they do. Other professionals that I know (trainers, farriers, dentists, vets, etc) can read horses just as well or better.

No one is saying beat the horse with a crop, they are just saying to respect the opinion of the person that you are paying or find someone whose opinion you agree with. Yes, it is often the riders fault that the horse refuses, just because you are carrying a crop doesn't mean that you have to beat her over the jump if you are messing up. To be honest, if you are that worried about responding like that, then the little kid jumps is where you should be until you are more secure in yourself and in your horse. If you don't want opinions, don't ask the question.
 
#22 ·
I have been riding for a lot of years, strictly trail riding for fun. I never had the opportunity or extra money to take lessons. I hope someday I will have the chance.
You are very lucky that your parents are in a position to be able to afford this opportunity for you.
Carry the crop, learn to use it as an aide and with finesse. If that is how you view it, as an aid and not just a whacking stick, then it should not be an issue. Just as you should be able to wear spurs but not use them unless necessary.
If as you say there is no other trainer available, then you may find yourself without one.
You already know she means business by making you ride in the 'kids' area when you did not comply last time.
Like you said, she is not asking you to use, just to carry it. Save your battles for something more important.
Good luck! :)
 
#23 ·
If you know your horse and he/she does not need it don't bring it. I have a very forward Morgan and If he even sees a crop he would freak. I have a very laid back AQHA who needs to see it. Stay true to your beliefs and trust your gut you are the expert of your horse not a "trainer". I commend you for knowing who you are and trying to stick to your beliefs! I well trained horse does not need a crop. or a bit. or a rein. Ask a Native American.
 
#26 ·
If you have an issue with how your instructor motivates and disciplines your horse, discuss it with them. But in this case she wasn't even asking you to use a particular aid on your horse. She was asking you to carry a crop as a precaution. Assuming the crop doesn't severely inconvenience you, a precaution isn't worth arguing over.

I know some horses are affected by their rider carrying a whip, even if they never use it. If for some reason you have concerns about that, then you should discuss them respectfully on the ground with your instructor. On the ground. Not when you're about to ride, not when tensions are high. Because it's going to be a long discussion about your training ethos, your long-term goals for your horse and your riding, and how you and your instructor can work together to reach those goals.

Wanting your horse to be responsive to leg and not to need additional aids is an admirable goal, but I doubt it's your life's mission. You don't have to use a whip if you carry it. If you're concerned you wouldn't be able to avoid using it, express that to your instructor. Not 'I won't carry a crop' but 'I'd rather not use the crop, how can I make sure I don't unthinkingly react with it when I ride?'.
 
#28 ·
If a horse freaks when he sees a crop, he has obviously been abused with one.
A horse should never be afraid of a whip or crop if they have been used correctly.
I love making my lunge whip CRACK! But then I can immediately rub it over Spike's face. He has never been beaten, he is not afraid.
Naive Americans DID use reins. Look up what a war bridle is. Pretty harsh.
Yes, you should absolutely stay true to your beliefs, but look at the situation.
This is a young person taking lessons under an instructor. If she trusts the instructor, she should do as she is told. She can absolutely ask questions, but no foot stomping and saying 'no, my horsey doesn't need that'.
If she has serious doubts about the instructor, she should stop lessons and find a new one.
She was not asked to beat the horse. She was asked to carry the crop.
Huge difference.
 
#29 ·
If a horse freaks when he sees a crop, he has obviously been abused with one.
A horse should never be afraid of a whip or crop if they have been used correctly.
I love making my lunge whip CRACK! But then I can immediately rub it over Spike's face. He has never been beaten, he is not afraid.
Naive Americans DID use reins. Look up what a war bridle is. Pretty harsh.
Yes, you should absolutely stay true to your beliefs, but look at the situation.
This is a young person taking lessons under an instructor. If she trusts the instructor, she should do as she is told. She can absolutely ask questions, but no foot stomping and saying 'no, my horsey doesn't need that'.
If she has serious doubts about the instructor, she should stop lessons and find a new one.
She was not asked to beat the horse. She was asked to carry the crop.
Huge difference.
To add - the best thing to do if that were the case would be to do the horse a favor by working with them to overcome that.
 
#30 ·
I'll tell y'all what the point of this is; this child thinks she knows more than anyone else.
1-I dont think i know more then anyone I know my horse more then anyone DIFFERENCE

Youth is curable though, and about the time someone turns 25-30, they've usually had enough knock downs and immersion in real life to realize they're not the fountain of all wisdom, and just maybe someone else has something to teach them. :wink:
2- Im not a child so please dont assume i am. I have spent my childhood working in yards showjumping, breeding, riding schools. I listen to all instruction i get so please dont assume different. When a reasoning isn't explained that means the person stating is not quite sure why they are requesting if a valid reason had been given ok fine but it wasn't

Until then though, of course she knows all there is to know about riding and training.
3-When did i ever say iv learnt all there is Im not quite sure what your getting at here I dont think we ever finish learning

If I were the instructor, I'd tell her parents I wouldn't be back. She's not worth dealing with, with her know-it-all, entitled attitude.
4-my lessons are nothing to do wiht my parent i model and pay for them myself. Im not a child so she cannot by pass me and go straight to my parents, and with my horses no matter what age i was ruling comes down to me there all bought by me so any decisions are made by me.I do not have a know it all attitude please ask anyone of the successful yards i have worked at and you will find i have an eager to learn attitude but of course with three posts you have figured out all about me. I dont feel im entitled to anything and i dont see your point in trying to make assumptions about me and my personality over a forum. I come from a large family and entitled to anything wouldnt be a word in my house. I am a full time vetinary student in colllege i also model full time to pay for my horses so how im entitled i dont know.

I blame her parents. Sounds like they've forgotten to tell Sweetums that she's not the center of the universe.
This is possibly the most OBNOXIOUS thing iv ever seen posted and why you even felt the need to criticise my parents is beyond me you have NO odea about me, my life, my family and to make such propsterous assumptions is 100% out of order. My parents have raised 5children each of us is successful in our own right. They have raised us brilliantly and to think you make such disparging remarks about my family is the reason im considering terminating my membership to this forum


Everyone on this forum is from different countries and back rounds so i dont see why you get away with telling me that my theory in how i want to ride my horse is wrong. I found out that in this forum its the AMerican way of doing things despite the fact were not all from America and have different teaching styles and learning environments are methids are instantly wrong.

Flitterbug- I was selected to represent my country at the eventing championships so i think my riding is up to scratch.
 
#33 ·
Everyone on this forum is from different countries and back rounds so i dont see why you get away with telling me that my theory in how i want to ride my horse is wrong. I found out that in this forum its the AMerican way of doing things despite the fact were not all from America and have different teaching styles and learning environments are methids are instantly wrong.
I gonna disagree with this statement. There is plenty of people from Australia and Europe here who give their opinions and different approaches.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top