Crops--cruel or beneficial when used properly? - Page 5
 
 

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Crops--cruel or beneficial when used properly?

This is a discussion on Crops--cruel or beneficial when used properly? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Using crop before horse jumps
  • Cruel sadist + bullwhip

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    06-27-2012, 08:42 AM
  #41
Super Moderator
western to english

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
yeah maybe!! I want a reiner lol but reining isn't really very big here, cutting is more the go for western folks.
I think my days of doing anything like that are long gone and in my dreams, I can't help but feel that they must somehow subdue most horses to make them feel 'safe' for the amateur/novice market. I might not be young anymore but I still want a horse that skips along a bit and feels like its enjoying what its doing rather than making me feel it would rather be putting its hooves up with a nice cool drink by the pool!!
     
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    06-27-2012, 08:48 AM
  #42
Foal
A crop/whip is simply an extension of your leg aid. Of course, any tool in the wrong hands can be used cruelly.

If you are working on the flat to get him more responsive to your leg, I would recommend a dressage whip instead of a crop. This will make it easier for you to use the whip to tap behind the lower leg, which is the aid you are trying to reinforce. I typically only use crops or bats when jumping, when you need more control over the horse's shoulders to prevent him from ducking out of a jump.

Of course, you will want to acclimate your horse to the dressage whip (or any crop/whip for that matter) if he has never had one used on him before. Otherwise, he may kick out in protest if you spring it on him without warning. If you need to get him acclimated to a whip, start by touching it all over his body, starting with the lower legs.

A word of caution: the dressage whip does not have a wide leather piece on the end like most crops do. The skinnier the whip, the more painful it can be if used inproperly. A tap is all you should need to reinforce your aids.
     
    06-27-2012, 08:50 AM
  #43
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I think my days of doing anything like that are long gone and in my dreams, I can't help but feel that they must somehow subdue most horses to make them feel 'safe' for the amateur/novice market. I might not be young anymore but I still want a horse that skips along a bit and feels like its enjoying what its doing rather than making me feel it would rather be putting its hooves up with a nice cool drink by the pool!!
lol I am a MAJOR adrenaline junkie. Deadheaded horses bore me to death, and simple circles/trails aren't enough. A good reining pattern would be awesome fun to ride I think! Why must western flatwork be so much more fun than English flatwork??
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    06-27-2012, 09:21 AM
  #44
Super Moderator
western to english

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
lol I am a MAJOR adrenaline junkie. Deadheaded horses bore me to death, and simple circles/trails aren't enough. A good reining pattern would be awesome fun to ride I think! Why must western flatwork be so much more fun than English flatwork??
I am still 12 years old in my head, its just the body that's fighting back!! I thought I might settle down and do some dressage but I can't remember the tests most of the time as my head is off somewhere else. I do like the look of this cowboy dressage though as its so less restrained looking. I say 'no more jumping' as I know I'm more likely to break if I fall off but if we see a fallen tree out on the trails what else can you do but jump it!!! I do see the skill in this slow precision stuff if its been achieved the right way but I need a horse with energy and impulsion. I've gone right back to basics with the new mare, working her on the lunge and she does have the energy, its almost as if she's had the desire to do it under saddle knocked out of her
     
    06-27-2012, 09:33 AM
  #45
Trained
^ yeah unfortunately some horses are still "broken" rather than trained :/

My gelding is the opposite, frisky under saddle and a total deadhead on the ground. Just how I like them the mare I'm working at the moment has NO ground manners, and I find that really irritating. Going to fish a rope halter out of the top shelf of my wardrobe and have a "come to jesus" meeting with her tomorrow I think!
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    06-27-2012, 10:02 AM
  #46
Super Moderator
right training

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
^ yeah unfortunately some horses are still "broken" rather than trained :/

My gelding is the opposite, frisky under saddle and a total deadhead on the ground. Just how I like them the mare I'm working at the moment has NO ground manners, and I find that really irritating. Going to fish a rope halter out of the top shelf of my wardrobe and have a "come to jesus" meeting with her tomorrow I think!
Its how they should be - I hate bad mannered horses, they are so dangerous without even meaning to be because no one seemed to think it mattered to start from the ground up. I like them to have a character but that doesn't mean they can by downright rude. Too many cranks out there with stupid ideas and too many people who think that horses can be played with like a pet dog or have the same feelings and mind as a human and the other sort that confuse respect with fear. That sort of takes us back to the whole whip thing and the lobby of people out there that insist that anyone who carries a whip is some sort of mindless, cruel, sadist.
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    06-27-2012, 11:52 PM
  #47
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
Its how they should be - I hate bad mannered horses, they are so dangerous without even meaning to be because no one seemed to think it mattered to start from the ground up. I like them to have a character but that doesn't mean they can by downright rude. Too many cranks out there with stupid ideas and too many people who think that horses can be played with like a pet dog or have the same feelings and mind as a human and the other sort that confuse respect with fear. That sort of takes us back to the whole whip thing and the lobby of people out there that insist that anyone who carries a whip is some sort of mindless, cruel, sadist.
Yep totally agree. My filly's dead quiet on the ground too! (haven't been on her back yet though)..

My pet peeve is those horses that are handled ALL THE TIME (think commercial operations, racehorses etc) and have dreadful manners because "there isn't time" to teach them good manners... Isn't time? Yeah, right. Because there's not time to insist they stay OUT of your space when you're leading them up. Because there's not time to spend an extra few seconds picking out their feet because you hang on when they try to snatch them away. It's not THAT hard, and it doesn't take long :/

Edit to add; this mare I'm working with raced and then pretty much went straight from racing to her owner's place to be handled by a 14yo who has NO IDEA what groundwork is, or how to insist on good manners when leading even... geeze there is a REASON their nearly 3yo gelding rears and strikes out and kicks and bites, and that's because of a complete lack of RESPECT.
     
    06-28-2012, 12:00 AM
  #48
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
^ yeah unfortunately some horses are still "broken" rather than trained :/

My gelding is the opposite, frisky under saddle and a total deadhead on the ground. Just how I like them the mare I'm working at the moment has NO ground manners, and I find that really irritating. Going to fish a rope halter out of the top shelf of my wardrobe and have a "come to jesus" meeting with her tomorrow I think!
Broken simply means the horse's resistant is broken, ergo he gives to pressure, like leg pressure, bit pressure, weight pressure, etc. Broken doesn't mean his spirit is broken, common misconception amongst novices.

Off topic a tiny tad.....went to buy a new dressage whip the other day, $50!!!!!???? When did the price jump?
     
    06-28-2012, 12:04 AM
  #49
Trained
Oh I know that's what most people use the term to mean, I just hate the word especially to mean a trained horse! My filly is nearly "broke" as in trained to ride, just have to back her and teach her about leg aids but I can't do that until she's a bit older. But I hate using "broke" or "broken" to describe it. It implies, to me, breaking something within them, which implies force, and therefore unpleasantness.

A lot of horses ARE still "trained" by having their spirit broken, and I hate that.
     

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crop, training, whip

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