Cross firing on lunge and while riding - The Horse Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: at the barn
Posts: 1,812
• Horses: 1
Thumbs down Cross firing on lunge and while riding

Today I rode my horse, i'm not supposed to because of my stomach from when I was kicked.

Anyway, while I was riding he was cross firing. Got off and decided I would lunge him to see if he was still going to do so on the lunge line and he was cross firing on the lunge line too.

I am reading up on it and it says that it's caused by the horse being unbalanced and can be fixed while putting side reins on and building top line.

I don't know how to fix this and I am really confused. Any help?

Last edited by beauforever23; 06-15-2011 at 03:37 PM.
beauforever23 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 03:47 PM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vidor, Texas
Posts: 2,805
• Horses: 3
Round pen! A lot of trotting to build muscle helps too.
gigem88 is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 03:49 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In a land far far away, or so I wish.
Posts: 12,825
• Horses: 0
Is this a new behavior for your horse?

(Since we know this horse is not new to you.)


I would say that since you have never mentioned this particular issue in any of your past plethora of posts about your issues that it is a new issue. Which makes me think it is most like pain induced.
Alwaysbehind is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 03:51 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 346
• Horses: 0
with cross firing do you mean two different canter leads on front and back? I'm not 100% sure of the terminology, but i'm pretty sure it's caused by balance issues. Is this a normal thing for your horse? Or does it happen in, say, a special corner or something? If this was the first time and he normally doesn't do it, look for medical problems such as lameness or swelling. Maybe someone kicked him on the pasture? If not, then you need to retrain some balance stuff, which i'm not the expert in. All i do is normally work in small circles, but that's because i deal with hot horses =) Good luck and keep us updated!
Indigosblue is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: at the barn
Posts: 1,812
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigem88 View Post
Round pen! A lot of trotting to build muscle helps too.
I don't have a round pen. I will keep him to trotting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind View Post
Is this a new behavior for your horse?

(Since we know this horse is not new to you.)


I would say that since you have never mentioned this particular issue in any of your past plethora of posts about your issues that it is a new issue. Which makes me think it is most like pain induced.
It is a new behavior for him. I have the vet coming in for his shots, which should be this weekend so, I will have the vet give him a look over.

I did check for any heat and i didn't feel any heat in his legs or anything (i don't know if that has anything to do with it but, figured I'd mention it) He doesn't show any signs of pain, no ouchyness. Although it could be something that I don't feel/see.

Other than the cross firing, he rides the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigosblue View Post
with cross firing do you mean two different canter leads on front and back? I'm not 100% sure of the terminology, but i'm pretty sure it's caused by balance issues. Is this a normal thing for your horse? Or does it happen in, say, a special corner or something? If this was the first time and he normally doesn't do it, look for medical problems such as lameness or swelling. Maybe someone kicked him on the pasture? If not, then you need to retrain some balance stuff, which i'm not the expert in. All i do is normally work in small circles, but that's because i deal with hot horses =) Good luck and keep us updated!
Does Your Horse Cross-Fire? - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

It's not a normal thing for him. It seemed to happen today when we were tracking left, on the closest side to the ring gate. He has his own pasture so, I know it's definitely not from getting kicked. Checked for lameness/heat/swelling and nothing.
beauforever23 is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 04:27 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eventing Country
Posts: 8,220
• Horses: 0
I would have your vet assess his back, this could be a chiro issue.

MIEventer is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 04:29 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 21,208
• Horses: 7
I'm going with some type of injury as well....

"Be a best friend, tell the truth, and overuse I love you
Go to work, do your best, don't outsmart your common sense
Never let your prayin knees get lazy
And love like crazy"
farmpony84 is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: at the barn
Posts: 1,812
• Horses: 1
ugh. that makes me so nervous :( i am going to call a chiro tomorrow to come in and assess the situation.
beauforever23 is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 10:38 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 5,995
• Horses: 0
Crossfiring is usually a lazy behavior, especially if a horse does it both ways. When a horse only does it one way, it can be a horse that is stiff or sore in its back, but is still usually a horse that is resistant and pulling on the longe line that direction or leaning and pulling on the inside rein when being ridden in a circle that direction.

It is very typical for a horse to 'drift out' and crossfire in the process when they go past the gate or past an area that they would rather be in. If this is the case, you just have a horse using crossfiring as part of their disobedience and resistance to your rein and leg aids. The horse is definitely NOT staying 'between your reins' and 'between your legs'.

These horses quit crossfiring when the rider pulls less on the bridle reins and pushes harder and more firmly with his/her legs. It usually means the horse has not been taught to yield properly to the rider's outside leg.

Horses have to be taught to properly yield to the riders 'lateral aids' first. Lateral aids are those that combine the left rein with the left leg. [Think leg yielding exercises, turns on the forehand and side-passing.] These are the easy ones. The opposite leg and rein only support while the dominant aids are the rein and leg on the same side.

It is far more difficult to teach proper response to the 'diagonal' aids. This is when the dominant aids are one rein and the opposite leg while the other rein and leg only support. These are the aids used in teaching things like good lead departures, the turn on the haunches, flying lead changes and the proper half-pass. These are very advanced compared to the lateral aids.

A horse that crossfires is 'flopping' its butt out as a sign of resistance and does not respond well enough to the rider's outside leg to fix it.

It is a really bad habit to let a horse fall into. It is a lazy, sloppy way for a horse to travel and usually indicates a horse that is heavy on its forehand and has zero collection. If this describes your horse, then it is just a lazy and bad habit and not pain or soreness related.

This can also start if a horse gains a lot of weight and gets fat and stiff --- and lazy.

I, personally, never let a horse crossfire just so they will not get comfortable with it. I always get after them hard and chase them around harder and harder until they bring that inside hind foot up and get both ends in the inside lead.

I never let them slow down to get correct -- I always make them go forward faster until they get it right. I do the same thing under saddle. They will get sloppyer and sloppyer and slow down and break stride if you do it any other way. Every horse I have will catch the inside hind leg back up if I just yell at them because I have tried to eat them up whenever they let that hind end fall out.

Letting a horse drag a back lead is kind of the epitome of anti-collection. If you let a horse do it for a long time, I guarantee that horse does not want any part of collection and of properly wanting to use its hind end.

At this point, I would bit this horse up with a snaffle and a surscingle and force it into proper frame and start longeing all over again -- both on a line and in a round pen -- and teach this horse to properly use its hind end.
Cherie is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 06-15-2011, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: at the barn
Posts: 1,812
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie View Post
Crossfiring is usually a lazy behavior, especially if a horse does it both ways. When a horse only does it one way, it can be a horse that is stiff or sore in its back, but is still usually a horse that is resistant and pulling on the longe line that direction or leaning and pulling on the inside rein when being ridden in a circle that direction.

It is very typical for a horse to 'drift out' and crossfire in the process when they go past the gate or past an area that they would rather be in. If this is the case, you just have a horse using crossfiring as part of their disobedience and resistance to your rein and leg aids. The horse is definitely NOT staying 'between your reins' and 'between your legs'.

These horses quit crossfiring when the rider pulls less on the bridle reins and pushes harder and more firmly with his/her legs. It usually means the horse has not been taught to yield properly to the rider's outside leg.

Horses have to be taught to properly yield to the riders 'lateral aids' first. Lateral aids are those that combine the left rein with the left leg. [Think leg yielding exercises, turns on the forehand and side-passing.] These are the easy ones. The opposite leg and rein only support while the dominant aids are the rein and leg on the same side.

It is far more difficult to teach proper response to the 'diagonal' aids. This is when the dominant aids are one rein and the opposite leg while the other rein and leg only support. These are the aids used in teaching things like good lead departures, the turn on the haunches, flying lead changes and the proper half-pass. These are very advanced compared to the lateral aids.

A horse that crossfires is 'flopping' its butt out as a sign of resistance and does not respond well enough to the rider's outside leg to fix it.

It is a really bad habit to let a horse fall into. It is a lazy, sloppy way for a horse to travel and usually indicates a horse that is heavy on its forehand and has zero collection. If this describes your horse, then it is just a lazy and bad habit and not pain or soreness related.

This can also start if a horse gains a lot of weight and gets fat and stiff --- and lazy.

I, personally, never let a horse crossfire just so they will not get comfortable with it. I always get after them hard and chase them around harder and harder until they bring that inside hind foot up and get both ends in the inside lead.

I never let them slow down to get correct -- I always make them go forward faster until they get it right. I do the same thing under saddle. They will get sloppyer and sloppyer and slow down and break stride if you do it any other way. Every horse I have will catch the inside hind leg back up if I just yell at them because I have tried to eat them up whenever they let that hind end fall out.

Letting a horse drag a back lead is kind of the epitome of anti-collection. If you let a horse do it for a long time, I guarantee that horse does not want any part of collection and of properly wanting to use its hind end.

At this point, I would bit this horse up with a snaffle and a surscingle and force it into proper frame and start longeing all over again -- both on a line and in a round pen -- and teach this horse to properly use its hind end.

Thanks for all the info, it is going to be very helpful. When I went back to the barn I ran my fingers down his spine and he didn't show any sign of discomfort or pain so I am going to go with that's not it. Actually he has had a sore back once before and he was off of work for a couple of days because of it so, that's definitely not it.

Sorry, just trying to get some details out here.
He's definitely not fat but, he is a lazy boy. I have to squeeze and squeeze and squeeze for him to extend and work into the bit, which we are also working on and he's been doing well. Right now he's in a snaffle bit 5'. He's been in a rubber snaffle too before and he liked that bit and wasn't pulling on me at all so I am thinking of switching him back to the rubber.

He pulls on me a lot and it's actually left marks on my hand(i don't have the word for it) we are working on collection and I have been working on my leg aids with him, figure 8's (he hates them) but, he doesn't do it in both directions I have realized he only does it in the one direction.

I do need to get a lot stricter with him and I know I need to get a lot stricter with my leg aids because, sometimes I am eh and let it go. (i have gotten better with my riding, i must get a video) He does do it while tracking left but, won't do it while tracking right. He is stiff a little bit tracking left but, he's sound (as said via vet).

We have done a flexion test on him and he trots away fine, each leg lifted and he trots away fine without any limping or anything. So, I don't know. I am going to have a chiro come out for him and still have the vet take a look at him.
beauforever23 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is pin firing? paintluver Horse Health 30 02-15-2012 08:40 PM
Cross Firing ekagj Horse Training 8 06-05-2011 10:31 AM
Is it really that bad to lunge your horse before riding? coffeeaddict Horse Training 31 07-14-2010 07:20 PM
Riding Critique lunge lesson!! sonnysfirststar Horse Riding Critique 12 02-22-2010 07:43 PM
Cross-firing - FRUSTERATING! Abby Horse Training 12 05-11-2008 05:37 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome