Dangerous baby. Ideas needed.
   

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Dangerous baby. Ideas needed.

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        02-23-2013, 07:36 PM
      #1
    Green Broke
    Exclamation Dangerous baby. Ideas needed.

    I need ideas, I need people who have been in a similar situations as I am currently in.

    Lets throw out the fact that I ride at a university and am surrounded by "professionals".

    I am riding a 2 year old who was broke out about a month ago by a different girl. This horse from day one has had a challenging personality. It would bite, strike out, try to run you over, etc. Well this behavior was not corrected by the girl who broke him out. Infact she backed down everytime he challenged her, she would either change the subject or put him away. Its obvious she was scared of him, and he took full advantage. Now I have the task of fixing the problem she created.

    His main problem is when my butt is in the saddle. Forward motion is basically non-exsistant. We have a serious rearing problem, everytime I challenge him or say "no" his reaction is to rear repeatedly. Almost everytime I ask him to go forward he rears in protest. I have tried spanking him with the reins and being chased with a whip (ONLY used when he started to suck back). I have also tried the fresh approach thinking maybe its because he is out of steam and is being fussy (that resulted in ALOT of bucking).

    He has had tons of ground work done to him. Ground driving, hobbling, sacking out, etc. He is still nasty on the ground aswell, he will frequently try to bite you when you're handling him. He will strike out occasionally aswell. Walking past his stall he gives you the look. BUT we have forward motion on the ground and no rearing. The past time I rode I had to get off because he was getting way too out of hand, we went straight to ground driving. He was more than happy to go forward.


    The more I ask him of him the harder he fights it. He has gotten away with being nasty from day one and how he thinks that's how the world works. He can do what he wants, and everyone will back down. I need to "wipe the smile off his face" right now before he turns into a very dangerous horse. I do not feel he is a "bad horse" per-say, he is still very young and has lots of time for learning. I think he has just had a bad start, but im at a loss right now.

    I need ideas or other alternatives because right now I don't know how far he is willing to go to fight me. I have "considered" the hybrid horsemanship method....I am not so sure tho. My main problem is in the saddle, when I get off it defeats the purpose because for the most part he behaves on the ground. My safety is my first priority, I need a way to get the fight out of him from a safer point. He needs to see the world in a different point of view and stop trying to fight everything. Life is not that hard and I don't know how to show him that! I fear for this horse's future, he is on a very bad path right now.

    Please help. If you have stories about horses like this please feel free to share, I'd like to read them. I have worked with difficult horses before but nothing like this.
         
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        02-23-2013, 07:44 PM
      #2
    Started
    Sounds to me like one of two things. His training is poor quality, he's terribly confused and reacts violently in self-defense. OR he's in pain. Being a 2 year old having had ALL that work done with him, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he were in pain in some ways or another.
         
        02-23-2013, 07:46 PM
      #3
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PunksTank    
    Sounds to me like one of two things. His training is poor quality, he's terribly confused and reacts violently in self-defense. OR he's in pain. Being a 2 year old having had ALL that work done with him, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he were in pain in some ways or another.
    Mind you almost ALL that work was rubbish. Everytime he acted nasty towards her she backed down.
         
        02-23-2013, 07:51 PM
      #4
    Started
    You need to establish respect on the ground before you ride him anymore this horse could definitely hurt you. Start him over from scratch pretend he doesn't know anything. You need to show him your the dominate leader not him. It's obvious that person that trained him did not know much about what they were doing. I have yearling colts that behave like my adult horses and this horse should do exactly the same. Everything he does when he pulls his stunts needs and immediate consequence and you only have 3 seconds. When his attitude gets sorry make his feet move, back him up, disengage his hindquarters and make him work. The one that moves his feet is the submissive horse in horse language. Make being a butt head work and being good easy. Then go back to whatever you were doing like it never happened. Make sure when he acts up you hold your ground and make him back away instead. This horse sounds like he needs a coming to jesus moment. Be firm with him don't give him an inch. When he tries to bite you turn on him and make him think your going to kill him. Smack him a lunge whip and be firm get loud move fast and hit him with firm and concise hits. Don't beat him up but make it hurt. You think he'd would get away with that if he were in the herd with the leader horse. He get kicked and chased and you need to do something which gives the same impression.
         
        02-23-2013, 07:53 PM
      #5
    Started
    Then it sounds to me like you need to start him from the beginning as clearly all he's learned is no good. I think trying to just get on won't work. I'd start him from the beginning and not get on him again (First of all until his joints close) but until he's calm and controlled on the ground.
         
        02-23-2013, 07:58 PM
      #6
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Peppy Barrel Racing    
    You need to establish respect on the ground before you ride him anymore this horses could definitely hurt you. Start him over from scratch pretend he doesn't know anything. You need to show him your the dominate leader not him. It's obvious that person that trained him did not know much about what they were doing. I have yearling colts that behave like my adult horses and this horse should do exactly the same. Everything he does when he pulls his stunts needs and immediate consequence and you only have 3 seconds. When his attitude gets sorry make his feet move, back him up, disengage his hindquarters and make him work. The horse one that moves his feet is the submissive horse in horse language. Make being a butt head work and being good easy. Then go back to whatever you were doing like it never happened. Make sure when he acts up you hold your ground and make him back away instead. This horse sounds like he needs a coming to jesus moment. Be firm with him don't give him an inch. When he tries to bite you turn on him and make him think your going to kill him. Smack him a lunge whip and be firm get loud move fast and hit him with a firm and concise hits. Don't beat him up but make it hurt. You think he'd would get away with that if he were in the herd with the leader horse. He get kicked and chased and you need to do something which gives the same impression.
    Thats just our problem. I DO get after him like hell is rising every time he shows an ounce of dis-respect. But he still walks around with a smirk on his face. Perhaps I need more and more ground work. But generally with ground driving, lunging, etc he behaves BUT has an attitude about it. He will do it but will have an attitude. That attitude is what needs to be eliminated. You will think you're winning on the ground, then hop on and his front legs spend more time in the air than on the ground.
         
        02-23-2013, 08:03 PM
      #7
    Started
    Are you using pressure and release correctly? Is there a way you can film yourself I'm kind of curious to watch his and your body language to get a better feel to tell you what to do. When you work him make sure there is not a lot of repetition and when lunging make sure not to do it for very long and implement lots of directional changes.
    PunksTank likes this.
         
        02-23-2013, 08:08 PM
      #8
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Peppy Barrel Racing    
    Are you using pressure and release correctly? Is there a way you can film yourself I'm kind of curious to watch his and your body language to get a better feel to tell you what to do. When you work him make sure there is not a lot of repetition and when lunging make sure not to do it for very long and implement lots of directional changes.

    The only time I have pressure on his mouth is when we re-direct. & the only time I ever re-direct is if he is taking me close to a wall. Soon as he goes forward I stop with the leg pressure, soon as he starts to suck back I start leg and voice cues. I make a point to have dramatic release of pressure. I even scratch his neck. Release is the most important thing especially when it comes to teaching babies.
         
        02-23-2013, 08:09 PM
      #9
    Green Broke
    This is not my horse, I do not have permission to post a video of it. I am not even allowed to post pictures of it.

    If you're curious as to my experience level there is a video of me riding a horse I trained on this site. But that's the best I can do for you.
         
        02-23-2013, 08:17 PM
      #10
    Started
    Well darn it's hard to say exactly with out watching him. But that is the limitation of the forum. I say just stay firm with him and keep things mixed up he may be one of those horses that's sours easy because of boredom.
         

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