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Dangerous baby. Ideas needed.

This is a discussion on Dangerous baby. Ideas needed. within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        02-23-2013, 09:20 PM
      #11
    Green Broke
    Believe me I'd love to post a video, I would be told if the instructors thought the issue was me. They gave the horse to me to fix, and so far they claim is just the horse. But there are always things that others might not see. That's why I posted this on here, for other ideas and opinions.
         
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        02-23-2013, 09:22 PM
      #12
    Super Moderator
    What if you lunge and ground drive him with a dummy on his back? Weighted to mimic a humans weight and firmly attached. Monty Roberts does this sometimes.
    .Delete. and Corporal like this.
         
        02-23-2013, 09:25 PM
      #13
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    What if you lunge and ground drive him with a dummy on his back? Weighted to mimic a humans weight and firmly attached. Monty Roberts does this sometimes.
    I thought about some how rigging a heavy sack to the saddle.

    The people I worked for over the summer hung heavy wagon tires from the horn. They hit right where the spurs would, I found it to be really effective with a horse who had forward motion issues. Unfortunately we don't have anything like that available to us.

    I might have to make a trip to Lowes
         
        02-23-2013, 09:42 PM
      #14
    Showing
    I bo't welsh and you are describing him to a T. His training was full of so many holes I began with haltering, even tho he was good for being haltered. I didn't want to miss a thing. Some days we progressed by yards and other days inches but his defensive attitude was beginning to soften. It was two months before he was ridden. He had learned to trust us and the kids had a blast with him.
         
        02-23-2013, 09:43 PM
      #15
    Super Moderator
    Rearing is one of the hardest things to break because it's one of the most dangerous things to react to.

    With my rearer, I never did get a 100% fix but one thing that you obviously know that worked well was forward motion, but since you are having a hard time with that (because he sounds like he is a pretty smart guy) then the next thing that was really helpful to me was that when he would rear, I would take the rein and yank him to the right or left while he was on the upward motion. That knocked him off balance and forced him to throw his front feet back to the ground.

    He got smart about it though and one time when I went to pull the rein, he spun his head the other way and pulled me right out of the saddle.

    Another thing I would do was jam my knuckle into his spine just above the withers as he would begin his rear, it hurt and he would come down.

    I came up with a lot of tactics that had good results but never did come up with a fix. I also never had a trainer that was willing to help me. They all said that he was dangerous and I should get rid of him. He was three when I got him and came with the rearing problems. He is 29 now and still out in my pasture.

    We had a lot of good years together, but the rearing I never did fix.

    I think that you are in a better position then I was though and I'm certain you will find a way to get past this. Good luck!
    Thunderspark and LeynaProof like this.
         
        02-23-2013, 09:51 PM
      #16
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by farmpony84    
    Rearing is one of the hardest things to break because it's one of the most dangerous things to react to.

    With my rearer, I never did get a 100% fix but one thing that you obviously know that worked well was forward motion, but since you are having a hard time with that (because he sounds like he is a pretty smart guy) then the next thing that was really helpful to me was that when he would rear, I would take the rein and yank him to the right or left while he was on the upward motion. That knocked him off balance and forced him to throw his front feet back to the ground.

    He got smart about it though and one time when I went to pull the rein, he spun his head the other way and pulled me right out of the saddle.

    Another thing I would do was jam my knuckle into his spine just above the withers as he would begin his rear, it hurt and he would come down.

    I came up with a lot of tactics that had good results but never did come up with a fix. I also never had a trainer that was willing to help me. They all said that he was dangerous and I should get rid of him. He was three when I got him and came with the rearing problems. He is 29 now and still out in my pasture.

    We had a lot of good years together, but the rearing I never did fix.

    I think that you are in a better position then I was though and I'm certain you will find a way to get past this. Good luck!
    Pulling off to the side worries me more than the rearing itself. I have seen many horses flip over by people trying to throw them off balance. Often when people do that (depending on the horse) it scares them and they give a look and rise even higher and flip over. This little guy rears very high as it is, throwing him off balance is the last thing I want to do. When he rears I throw my hands forward and grab mane or neck and try to stay centered. I have thought about bailing and flipping him over when he does it, but I don't want to go that extreme yet considering he could get hurt.
    farmpony84 likes this.
         
        02-23-2013, 09:54 PM
      #17
    Started
    Make him move his feet when he starts to rear, make him turn circles when you feel him fixing to rear up. When you ride keep him busy, lots if directional changes.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    FaydesMom likes this.
         
        02-23-2013, 09:57 PM
      #18
    Green Broke
    Wow. You're in a tough spot.


    I'm not sure how you are going to do this...
    Quote:
    Make being a butt head work and being good easy. Then go back to whatever you were doing like it never happened.
    With this...
    Quote:
    Forward motion is basically non-exsistant. We have a serious rearing problem, everytime I challenge him or say "no" his reaction is to rear repeatedly. Almost everytime I ask him to go forward he rears in protest.
    ... going on.

    I would do one of two things, and it would depend on where the horse and I were, who else was around, and how much time I had for the horse.

    I would either re-start the horse. Not caring if he was a dream on the ground. I'd find a hole somewhere. Doesn't want to stand tied for 4 to 6 hours? Doesn't want me to trim his feet (I have to be nearly the world's slowest trimmer). Put up with having a light saddle put on and taken off a few dozen times. Ground drive for a few miles.

    I would purposely irritate this horse, correct, and do it some more. He'd give up before I did.

    I've only felt the need to take three horses who reared back over. Then I did throw a tarp on them and let them think about that for a while. Less than an hour. But, they were bad enough that they had already hurt people and had just had some seriously messed up "training."

    I wouldn't do that if there were people who might be upset. Not really fair to them, they don't understand. And you will be verbally attacked, screwing up your ability to interact with the horse appropriately when you get him up.

    Being that this is a college program, I expect you have some time to spend on this. No 14 day deadline or anything.

    What do your instructors suggest, if anything. My observation of many college programs are that there is little actual training of the students when things like this come up.
    .Delete. and Skyseternalangel like this.
         
        02-23-2013, 09:58 PM
      #19
    Super Moderator
    My horse was a very athletic boy. But when I pulled to the side, it was just as he went up so his feet had just left the ground, if I waited to long he was already up and my only option was to kick really hard which would result in a forward leap that always scared the poop out of me. Luckily he was not an evil horse.....
         
        02-23-2013, 10:01 PM
      #20
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Peppy Barrel Racing    
    Make him move his feet when he starts to rear, make him turn circles when you feel him fixing to rear up. When you ride keep him busy, lots if directional changes.
    Posted via Mobile Device

    How can I do that when I cannot get him to move his feet to begin with? Everytime we re-direct or steer at all he sucks back and rears. Besides, like I previously mentioned. I am not throwing that already unbalanced baby off balance when he is on his hind feet.
         

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