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Dangerous rude behavior, please help!

9K views 70 replies 26 participants last post by  bbsmfg3 
#1 ·
I have got a three or four year old Arabian cross, Pepper.
When I got her she was very very unruly and dangerous. I worked her through that, wasn't too hard, she was a pipsqueak back then. But now she is a full grown, or close to full grown, horse.

She started to rear up in peoples faces, jump the fence, bite, and chase people down. A couple of weeks ago she reared up and got me in the chest and she chased my bestfriend's mother out of the pasture.
(we tell everyone now don't turn tail and run from her, walk calmly.)

Pepper is smart as I don't know what. I've never let her get away with too much.
She has been started under saddle in the last few months. She has had next to perfect ground manners, it's just recently.

I'm just curious as to why she might be acting up... My dad says she is playing but I've never allowed her to 'play' like that, atleast not with people. Maybe it's my fault, a training gap or I've just been treating her like my baby, even worse she has something physically wrong...
Any suggestions would be might helpful.
Thanks!
 
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#5 ·
"I've just been treating her like my baby" That will get you in to trouble every time. You allow her into your space which makes her boss over you. Your space is the length of your outstretched arm. She is never to come in to that or you must move her out of it immediately. When you do this keep your feet planted. If you move the horse thinks it is moving you. In the herd a horse that is higher is the pecking order moves a lesser horse. Don't let that lesser horse be you. Get help if you need it. Sometimes one good lesson in retraining you may be all you need.
 
#6 ·
I have got a three or four year old Arabian cross, Pepper.
When I got her she was very very unruly and dangerous. I worked her through that, wasn't too hard, she was a pipsqueak back then. But now she is a full grown, or close to full grown, horse.

She started to rear up in peoples faces, jump the fence, bite, and chase people down. A couple of weeks ago she reared up and got me in the chest and she chased my bestfriend's mother out of the pasture.
(we tell everyone now don't turn tail and run from her, walk calmly.)

Pepper is smart as I don't know what. I've never let her get away with too much.
She has been started under saddle in the last few months. She has had next to perfect ground manners, it's just recently.

I'm just curious as to why she might be acting up... My dad says she is playing but I've never allowed her to 'play' like that, atleast not with people. Maybe it's my fault, a training gap or I've just been treating her like my baby, even worse she has something physically wrong...
Any suggestions would be might helpful.
Thanks!
There is your answer!
She is smart.
I have never let her get away with to much.

Letting her get away with anything is enough for her to have no respect at all.

All the rearing and chasing is natural, they do it to each other when in a herd, but they have to learn that it is a definite NO when humans are involved.

This horse needs work, she needs to have her mind occupied, most of all she needs discipline whereby, at the start, she does not even dare to blink without permission.

This does not mean that she is beaten up but it does mean that she is corrected by being made to do whatever with a firm poke of the finger or being made to go back.

I set a horse up for correction, it is easy to do. I will have them in the stable, and make them stand still untied. The moment they move they are corrected by being pushed back to where they were.
I will have them tied and if I walk to the other side of them I expect them to yield to me by moving over.

As for her behaviour in the filed then she would certainly have the shock of her life if she even thought of behaving as she is.
I would arm myself, preferably with a long lunge whip or my hunting whip, I prefer the latter as it is easier to hold unnoticed by the horse.

The moment she got in my face then she would feel that whip across her front legs hard.
This will probably cause the reaction of her swinging away and possibly double barrelling out at you - which she would do in a herd. My follow up would be to get at least one or two lashes into her backside to let her know that I really mean for her to stop that nonsense.

I do know what I am doing and am ready for their reaction, my actions are fast so there is absolutely no doubt in their mind as to my meaning it.

This mare needs to go to an experienced trainer and you need to go too so that you learn how to gain her respect.
 
#7 ·
If that were my horse it be going to the sale barn and in a big hurry. Even if you get her straightened out she could revert back to nasty. Sorry i wont keep a horse like that too many nice ones around that need homes. I had one that went after my daughter when she was 4 years old. He was in the kill mode only thing that kept him from getting her was a fence between them. I got rid of him two weeks later had he hurt my daughter he would of been shot right then and there.
 
#8 ·
I'm only a couple hours away from you. If you are interested, maybe I could help. I'd have to bring her up here for a while, though. I'm not a professional trainer, but I've handled my share of horses. From what you've posted, she's already past your abilities to handle. You'd have a hard time undoing things now by yourself. You could probably do it with the help of a trainer, but not alone. Once she's corrected and settled, you could probably handle her...if you get a little training as well.

If you are interested, PM me. We'll see if we can figure something out.
 
#9 ·
We bought a seven year old TWH mare in October of 2011. She is an in your pocket, loveable, beautiful mare. HOWEVER, she has a dark side. She is a full fledge Im going to turn my butt and let you have it horse. Well, was.... She never really bothered me but she attempted severy times to get my husband. The one and only time she has ever tried kicking at me was in the pasture at feed time. She got too close to me so when I took a step toward her she turned her butt and started kicking. I ALWAYS carry a whip in my pasture at feeding time. I let her have it. I smacked her about 15 times on her hind legs till she spun her rump and faced me, calmly. As long as her rump was towards me and was kicking I was crossing those back legs with the whip. She has NEVER turned her rump towards me again or even come close to acting like she is getting in my personal space. Now, my husband on the other hand just so happened to get kicked square on the butt by her because he was filling her water bucket and he was in her "space". She didnt just fire off at him once or twice. But about ten times in a row. The only thing he had was rocks. So you started picking up rocks and slinging them at her till she turned around and faced him. Its not a game. When you enter a horses field it aint their territory. Its YOURS. When she starts this BACK HER DOWN. At whatever it may take to do. Be assertive, be strong, stand your ground. Now, if you are too scared of her to do that. Then send her to a trainer or get rid of her. I have had a horse rear up on me one time. This was while I was lunging a horse. He charged me and reared and I took my whip and for every second those front feet where he got the sting of the whip across those front legs. No, sometimes it doesnt come down to having to use a whip you can mearly show you arent afraid and you arent going to back down and ask them to move away by swinging a rope or waving your hands. But in either of my instances that didnt work. My whip was my way of saying "GET OFF ME NOW!!!"
 
#10 ·
I've started to carry a riding crop with me and a chained lead across her nose when I'm dealing with her.
I've got a few people who are willing to help me out with her.

I understand that many of you think getting rid of her might be a smart idea but I bottle fed her. I will do whatever I can to fix her. She just hasn't been nasty like this in a long time.
I won't just sell her because there are too many nice ones around. Almost every horse I've ever owned has been a nasty butt face when I got them. You have to see the diamond in the rough. Just about anything can be made shiny. And this mare of mine is most deff something shiny, she has the personality (when she isn't be a total b), looks, movement, and just because she is my Pepper.

--I never realized that my bubble in the arms outstretched though! Magic and my friend's horse Toby don't walk up on me like that, they never have. Once we moved Toby in Pepper started that crap though. I'll have to remember that for when I feed in the morning.
 
#37 ·
I've started to carry a riding crop with me and a chained lead across her nose when I'm dealing with her.
I've got a few people who are willing to help me out with her.

I understand that many of you think getting rid of her might be a smart idea but I bottle fed her. I will do whatever I can to fix her. She just hasn't been nasty like this in a long time.
I won't just sell her because there are too many nice ones around. QUOTE]

Well, I wouldn't sell her, but that is just me. I would not put a chain across any horse's nose, though. If I needed to do this to "manage" them, I would have to concede they had more issues than I could enjoyably and safely handle. I would carry a training whip, no a crop. And, I would be prepared and not hestitate to use it, appropriately....but a chain across the nose w the ability to tighten is a little over the top, IMO.

My mare was orphaned. She had a few "unacceptable" and dangerous behaviors when I got her as a filly. I most certainly was not going to sell her b/c she didn't "know better", but I didn't baby her until after she learned the rules, either. I now work w her on the ground at liberty and ride her anywhere I want to go. You can't "mix" the two (babying and correction/training)....but if you can't "get there" w/o the use of chains or whatnot, you might want to rethink your methods.
 
#11 ·
A horse is a horse is a horse.....not a baby....even if you bottle fed her.....I do believe Clinton Anderson had to deal with a horse that behaved like yours and it was bottle fed too......I've never seen the DVD for it so can anyone else name that particular show and perhaps give the OP some more details?
 
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#14 ·
You probably don't underestimate me too much. I don't want to overestimate that's for sure! That would suck really badly for me.
I'll let you know probably sometime soon! Thanks so much for the offer!

and yes I know that she isn't a baby, she is close to a 1000lb horse. She isn't my bestfriend, we can't go clothes shopping and she can't ride in my smart car. -But if she could I'd be down for the mall :p
I'm just going to have to buckle down on her, being pushed around by a very large ballsy horse isn't a good idea nor is it fun.

Do you guys think having a job might help? Like starting some training, lunging, etc? She always seems more pushy when I take Magic out with Toby for a ride. Maybe she is bored, or am I humanizing her a little too much again?
 
#13 ·
Hey listen, I hope you'll take advice given here with a grain of salt. Your horse may indeed be dangerous, and there could be a million causes. You seem like a nice person and I'm sure that if you did anything to cause it it wasn't intentional. There would be little point in you asking for help if you had created a troubled horse on purpose.

If it were me and I wanted to try and work it out, I would seek out the expertise of the best in the business. For my money, the best guy I've seen out there when it comes to dealing with these kinds of problems is Buck Brannaman. I'm not a disciple, I follow like 10 different trainers, but that guy can fix a troubled horse.
 
#15 ·
For my money, the best guy I've seen out there when it comes to dealing with these kinds of problems is Buck Brannaman. I'm not a disciple, I follow like 10 different trainers, but that guy can fix a troubled horse.
Thanks! I'll look him up. I'm not a millionaire but I'd rather fix her issues than send her off to someone who has no idea or intention of helping her along.
 
#17 ·
When you enter the pasture you are the "lead mare", she's trying to boss you around and doing it in a very dangerous way! At feeding time I take a buggy whip in with me, I have 4 horses and 1 boarded and they all stand back while I put the hay out....they know when it hits the ground they can have it but until then it's mine! Any other time if I go out in the pasture they know there is no shoving/kicking/pushing while I am in there otherwise I chase them off! Stay safe!
 
#18 ·
You talk about babying her and spoiling her....what do you mean by that? I bought my spotted saddle when she was two. My first horse to from ground up. I wouldnt trade her for all the gold in the world. She is my pride and my joy and nothing could ever pursuade me. I would go to the end of this world and back a million times to do what I thought needed to be done with her. I and most people around say that I spoil her. But here is how or what they consider spoiling her. She is in a 14 x 16 stall at night with 8" of sawdust and a thick layer of straw. She is blanketed 24/7 in the winter other than groomings and workouts. She is groomed everyday twice a day. Her mane and tail stay braided 24/7 unless I am going out trail riding. She has a tail bag in 24/7 and has fly spray on everyday and her fly mask during the summer. She gets her feet done every 5 weeks. She is seen by a vet twice a year for regular check ups. She has hay available (timothy/alfalfa) 24/7 year round. She gets sprayed off every day during the summer. Dadada. I could keep going. BUT she has the best ground manners. She will not under any circumstance come into your space. When you ask her to do something she responds that instance. She does not hesitate. Now, undersaddle we are still working on because I had to put her training on hold for two years. Is stuff like that you consider spoiling? Or is treats, hand feeding grain, lots in your pocket contact without your content to do so?
 
#21 ·
You need a job? We're hiring! Lol!:)
 
#19 ·
She has all of the necessities (as I call them), lots of hay, huge stall. But I've always given her treats by hand and grain as well. She got so bad as to chewing a hole in my leather jacket for peppermint patties, granted it wasn't on me, it was on the fence (not sure if that's a o crap my bad or a omgoodness Pepper, you rat!).
She doesn't have terrible ground manners, well sort of, if I ask her to do something like back up, up the gate, bow, voice commands on the lunge line she will do them in a heart beat but when I'm just walking around in the pasture she globs all over me, or gets nasty.
-However at feed time she doesn't, just a hand in front of her bucket and saying no keeps her at bay.

O and another question (SORRY!) Pepper likes to rip down my saddles off the fence when I'm tacking up another horse, she chews the leather or pushes it on the ground, stomps all over it and then is good. Is she being a jerk or would there be a reason for that?
 
#20 ·
The horse i got rid of i raised so he would replace my mare when her usefull days were done. I owned him for 8 years he was nasty from the time he was a youngster wasnt bottle fed the mare raised him. He was a beautiful horse 15.2 1/2 hands tall had it all gaits looks breeding but temperment was bad. He wasnt treated like a puppy dog he respected me but i could never trust him. My daughter was way more important then that horse staying here to replace my mare. I never regreted getting rid of him he was nasty and not trust worthy. I replaced him ten times over i have two nice tempered geldings well trained good looking and i dont have to worry when their going to be mean. So your shiny star aint worth your well being period. My horse i raised had it all but lacked one serious part of what i look for in a horses temperment. From your post shes never been that nice. Iv seen bottle fed horses who are monsters and not worth the time of day. I dont waste my time on ill tempered horses my well being is worth too much plus i have a family they come first. I love my horses and take the best care of them i can but if their mean their gone period.So do what you want but that horse really doesnt sound all that great.
 
#22 ·
Youv made your own monster hand feeding treats and grain. My horses ever push me around i knock them a good one. I NEVER EVER hand feed makes for pushy nasty horses. I go into my pasture with my horses and they dont dare get in my space. Sounds like you mare needs a good attitude ajustment. Sounds like a spoiled brat thats rude and pushy. You created your own problems quite hand feeding treats. That horse would have a tough time at my place i knock the crap right out of her. She wouldnt push me around but maybe twice. Hand feeding = nasty pushy rude horses.You need some lessons on how to handle horses. From the sounds of your post your not too horse savy.
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
Youv made your own monster hand feeding treats and grain. My horses ever push me around i knock them a good one. I NEVER EVER hand feed makes for pushy nasty horses. I go into my pasture with my horses and they dont dare get in my space. Sounds like you mare needs a good attitude ajustment. Sounds like a spoiled brat thats rude and pushy. You created your own problems quite hand feeding treats. That horse would have a tough time at my place i knock the crap right out of her. She wouldnt push me around but maybe twice. Hand feeding = nasty pushy rude horses.You need some lessons on how to handle horses. From the sounds of your post your not too horse savy.
Do tell someone else their horse isn't all that great, go tell someone else they aren't horse savy.

So please before I get more annoyed go harp someone else. Your in put is no longer nice.
 
#24 ·
Alot of horses are nasty, just how they are. Kind of like getting a ram, once they realize they have horns they use em.
But um thanks? I will indeed do exactly what I want... Opinions are just like butts, everyone has one. Idk what else to say to you without seeming rude, which I attempt to not do.

She isn't ill tempered, she is a spoiled rotten crap head. Glad you know when a horse isn't trust worthy but diamond in the rough.
 
#27 ·
Hope you can get a handle on it soon. Horses can be very dangerous without even trying.

I "spoil" my horses to pieces ie...they are pampered and loved on - Biscuit gets miles of treats but not Sarge. Sarge gets a little pushy about them but Biscuit doesn't.

If one of my horses kicked me or even threatened to kick me, I would whip him into the next year. I haven't had that problem with mine but I don't play.

I have always told my darling horses "if I can't kick your @$$ I will hire someone who can" and I mean that. I love them dearly but don't ever kick, bite, run at or in general try to dominate momma.

My former horse Red made the mistake of kicking at his new owner when she bought him as a yearling. Oh my stars...bad mistake on the part of Dashing Big Red. Margaret tore his butt up with a bull whip in a round pen. That horse has NEVER offered to kick anyone since. He was the sweetest tempered horse I have ever been around but she said he was pretty fresh when she got him. She had him for 6 years and raced him for 2.

Best of luck with your horse. Make sure she KNOWS beyond a shadow of a doubt that YOU are the boss.

Our horse Sarge is the dominate horse and he will often give Biscuit the evil eye to move him away if we are there (he loves all the attention for himself!) but if hubby growls at him and backs him up Sarge instantly obeys that human is the boss. That is what you want from her. Even in the herd she should recognize you as boss.
 
#30 ·
Ok....now that you've said that, I am going to 'offer' some advice so that you can be effective when you do choose to have this 'meeting' with her..
1. When she offers you a 10....you come back and give her a twenty....
2. Do it like you mean it.....if she offers you any aggression like kicking, front footing, rearing near or even worse over you, biting, charging and you mean to whack her for it.....do it like you mean it and roar at her like a starved lion! You need to hear the end of that whip whistling through the air and smacking her! She needs to feel it.
3. Be consistent. Don't walk out to the pasture with a whip one day and correct her, and then not take it the next time, if you take it out and she's good, then so be it, perfect......she will learn that she only gets spanked when she's being dangerous.
4. Also, I don't actually like horses to fear a whip, it's not my intention. So if I have had to whomp a horse across the butt with a whip, 99% of the time it's because they have been aggressively disrespectful, I will wait until the training session is over and the horse is relaxed and I will stand with the horse on the lead and swing and drag the end of the whip all over his body and around his legs while soothing him.....it's a good way to end a session when the horse is relaxed and learning that the whip is not to be feared but the handler is to be respected. I have never had a horse become 'eye ball rolling' fearful of a whip, but I still go through this process anyway.....it soothes me and the horse:)
5. Horses are inherently lazy......make her work when she's naughty....they hate it! They soon connect the dots.
 
#31 ·
JustRuthiey, It is tough love but think of it this way, if she hurt someone seriously you may be backed into a corner and have to put her down. This is your bottle fed baby and I can understand that. I didn't bottle feed a baby but the first foal I had was a little Shetland/Quarter Horse (we didn't know she was pregnant when my dad bought her for my little sister) and OMG I literally hauled that baby around with me. I could pick her up! She would open the sliding screen door and come in the kitchen :lol: I can still hear my mom yelling "get the horse out of the kitchen!!!"

She was majorly imprinted at birth to people and your little one must have been too - now it is time that she remembers that YOU are the boss. Get that buggy/lunge whip out and let her know that behavior that is dangerous is just that...dangerous for her and that her life literally depends on her stopping that crap now!

Lots of ground work and expect and demand PERFECT behavior. She is smart and will learn that you are the boss and will kick her backside up around her neck if necessary. Good luck and hope to hear she is making a passing grade soon.
 
#33 ·
If I were you I would be working on her ground manners 5 times a week. She needs to know whos boss and that your the boss EVERYWHERE not only with a chain lead on. Getting a second opinion from a professional is never a bad thing even if you have worked with a lot of horses like her.

I dont think she is a lost cause but you need to correct this now and have other on the same page. (if anyone else works with her or is around her)
Check out some youtube videos of aggressive horses to see what you might want to try. I wouldn't rush breaking her until she is better on the ground. Good Luck :)
 
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