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Dangerous rude behavior, please help!

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    12-24-2012, 11:30 AM
  #51
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muppetgirl    
Ok....now that you've said that, I am going to 'offer' some advice so that you can be effective when you do choose to have this 'meeting' with her..
1. When she offers you a 10....you come back and give her a twenty....
2. Do it like you mean it.....if she offers you any aggression like kicking, front footing, rearing near or even worse over you, biting, charging and you mean to whack her for it.....do it like you mean it...

A bit tongue in cheek, but somewhat applicable.

Also, little things count. Does she ever get fussy being led? Does she cooperate getting her hooves cleaned? If you stop her on a lead line, does she stop? Or does she kind of stop? We tend to think these are little things, but horses look at them and think, "The King is getting old. Maybe it is time to replace him..." You may need to get in touch with your inner King Henry VIII!

I'm not a trainer. I'm not a pro. I don't compete in anything and my horses - all THREE of them - are works in progress. So take this with a big steaming cup of FWIW:

The best time to deal with a kicker is before they kick. Find a small thing. Just lead the horse somewhere, stop them, and then start insisting they don't fidget. Fidgeting means going backwards or disengaging until they get the idea that moving around is unacceptable. Come armed. If a fight develops, be prepared to win. You have the advantage of picking the time and place, so pick it well.

Horses don't start showing dominance by kicking out. Neither should you. Like them, start with little things. Start them when you've thought it out, and have a plan A, plan B, and plan C on how to win.

If the horse starts to 'lose', it may back down. Or it may decide you've brought a fist to a knife fight. If it does that, you need to be ready with a gun. That is why you need to think things thru in advance, and pick a time and place where you are prepared to do what it takes to win.
If any of you wanted to build a tower, wouldn’t he first sit down and work out the cost of it, to see if he can afford to finish it? Otherwise, when he has laid the foundation and found himself unable to complete the building, everyone who sees it will begin to jeer at him, saying, ‘This is the man who started to build a tower but couldn’t finish it!’

Or, suppose there is a king who is going to war with another king, doesn’t he sit down first and consider whether he can engage the twenty thousand of the other king with his own ten thousand? And if he decides he can’t, then, while the other king is still a long way off, he sends messengers to him to ask for conditions of peace." - Jesus Christ
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    12-24-2012, 12:24 PM
  #52
QOS
Green Broke
Thenrie, I am the same with my boys - I want a close relationship with them. They are not show horses - they are not "tools" to me. They are literally my 4 legged babies. But, just as I expected my kids to behave and not embarrass me in public, I expect the same out of my horses.

When I got Biscuit he was all over the place - not mean (that horse wouldn't know how to be mean thank God) but he'd over walk me on the lead rope, try to lead (really drag!) me down the ranch road. Didn't pick up his feet...he was also terrified someone would hurt him.

Loads of hugs and kisses and treats for him to gain his trust and many stop start stop start back up back up BACK UP!!! Times for him, would walk off before I was mounted in the arena, act like a GOOBER in the arena until now he walks slightly behind me, picks up those feet for me and will lean in for a hug and is always grateful for a treat but never pushy about it. This from someone who had been pretty dang nervous around anything even resembling bad behavior after getting really hurt on a horse. I demand good behavior and reward that and punish bad behavior.

OP, start working everyday on the bad behaviors - get help if necessary. I did! My barn owner had to jack Biscuit up one day - and by that I mean he didn't want to lunge....she convinced him with a lunge whip bonking on his shoulder over and over and over that it was in his best interest to move to the right when she said so. She was never mean with him but she meant business. She is the one that helped me get him to pick up his feet when asked. Poor old Biscuit once was set upon by 3 of us in the arena. He decided it was best for his little yellow self to go to the right!
     
    12-24-2012, 12:37 PM
  #53
Foal
OK "toosexy" when I die I want to come back and be your horse
     
    12-24-2012, 01:11 PM
  #54
Yearling
I know some people think I may sound harsh. But there is a fine line horses should not be aloud to cross. A 180lb human is no match for a 1000lb horse that's just being a brat. I love on my horses. I go out in the pasture just to scratch them or hang out with them. All we have to do is walk outside and all of our horses rush to the gate. We don't even have to call them. They are always eager to see us. They enjoy their work whether they are spending 30 minutes on a lunge line or going for a 30 mile hack. We punish kicking and rearing severely because I have small children and I don't want a animal around that will harm them so if any behavior is every exibited that may be potentionally dangerous or disrespectful then it is delt with pretty harsh. My horses are in no way shape or form scared of whip. The whip is not what delivers the punishment, WE as the owners and leaders are. If I walk in my pasture to go catch someboday. Nobody moves. They stand right where they are and wait. Nobody walks off and starts any commotion. When we put them back in the pasture. Once we remove their halter they stand and wait until after the gait is shut to move. They will not run off or bolt back to the herd. If they do, they get brought out, again, and again, and again to practice an approriate behavior. Nobody every rushes us to do anything. They do not and will not holler back out to a herd member and they will not every rush back to the barn. If they rush back to the barn that's fine, we shall do fifty laps around the barn, now see how much fun getting back to the barn is!?. Each horse is different and not all of them need the same type of punishment. Our App has to be handled very delicately. You don't have use a whip on him. Raising the tone in your voice or waving your hands will easily make him back off and stop whatever it is he is doing. This mare the OP is talking about has gone too far. I would personally, put her in a dry lot at least an acre. I would make her depend on me for EVERYTHING. Water, food, pasture turnout, etc. I would get her out three times a day, every day. I would not offer any treats for a while if you do throw them in a ground feeder not by hand. I would always carry a dressage or buggy whip with me. ANY and I me ANY rude or disrespectful behavior needs to be correct immediately and firmly. Do it fast. You may not every have to hit her with the whip. You may be able to just show it to her. Depends on her. If she gets too close to you while leading turn around wave your arms, shake your lead, roar, whatever, but back her up! Don't allow her to come close to you. Once she is respecting your space then you can slowly start inviting her in on your terms but it she doesnt back away when you ask you need to firmly back off like you mean it NOW. Don't give a 50% reaction to her 100% action. When you go after her to correct do it with 120% do it and mean it. Stick to it. She isnt too far gone not to be able to correct. Somebody just needs to put her in the right place in the pecking order.
     
    12-24-2012, 01:52 PM
  #55
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by toosexy4myspotz    
I know some people think I may sound harsh. But there is a fine line horses should not be aloud to cross. A 180lb human is no match for a 1000lb horse that's just being a brat. I love on my horses. I go out in the pasture just to scratch them or hang out with them. All we have to do is walk outside and all of our horses rush to the gate. We don't even have to call them. They are always eager to see us. They enjoy their work whether they are spending 30 minutes on a lunge line or going for a 30 mile hack. We punish kicking and rearing severely because I have small children and I don't want a animal around that will harm them so if any behavior is every exibited that may be potentionally dangerous or disrespectful then it is delt with pretty harsh. My horses are in no way shape or form scared of whip. The whip is not what delivers the punishment, WE as the owners and leaders are. If I walk in my pasture to go catch someboday. Nobody moves. They stand right where they are and wait. Nobody walks off and starts any commotion. When we put them back in the pasture. Once we remove their halter they stand and wait until after the gait is shut to move. They will not run off or bolt back to the herd. If they do, they get brought out, again, and again, and again to practice an approriate behavior. Nobody every rushes us to do anything. They do not and will not holler back out to a herd member and they will not every rush back to the barn. If they rush back to the barn that's fine, we shall do fifty laps around the barn, now see how much fun getting back to the barn is!?. Each horse is different and not all of them need the same type of punishment. Our App has to be handled very delicately. You don't have use a whip on him. Raising the tone in your voice or waving your hands will easily make him back off and stop whatever it is he is doing. This mare the OP is talking about has gone too far. I would personally, put her in a dry lot at least an acre. I would make her depend on me for EVERYTHING. Water, food, pasture turnout, etc. I would get her out three times a day, every day. I would not offer any treats for a while if you do throw them in a ground feeder not by hand. I would always carry a dressage or buggy whip with me. ANY and I me ANY rude or disrespectful behavior needs to be correct immediately and firmly. Do it fast. You may not every have to hit her with the whip. You may be able to just show it to her. Depends on her. If she gets too close to you while leading turn around wave your arms, shake your lead, roar, whatever, but back her up! Don't allow her to come close to you. Once she is respecting your space then you can slowly start inviting her in on your terms but it she doesnt back away when you ask you need to firmly back off like you mean it NOW. Don't give a 50% reaction to her 100% action. When you go after her to correct do it with 120% do it and mean it. Stick to it. She isnt too far gone not to be able to correct. Somebody just needs to put her in the right place in the pecking order.


One word, . . No two: Paragraph breaks!
     
    12-24-2012, 03:40 PM
  #56
Started
So...I did not read all the responses. I skipped page five. I think there is some solid advice being offered. I would stop all hand feeding right away. This is why orphan foals are so difficult to work with. Was this mare orphaned or bottle fed? I ask because if she was orphaned and did not have any adult horse for behavior modeling I think it will be harder for her to learn appropriate behavior. Bottle feds get super pushy and are often rewarded for it because they are babies who are hungry.

She is eating and destroying leather because she is a busy body. There is no other reason for it. I would stop storing equipment where she can reach it.

My second question is do the behavior changes occur consistently or at random times? I am wondering if it co-incides with the mares heat cycle. Which would give you some other options.

I think working with an experienced trainer is worth it. This sounds like a whole bunch of issues that could be very dangerous. In the mean time, I would employ a nothing in life is free/boot camp style training with this mare. That means only you handle her. She works for EVERYTHING and if she does not do it perfectly then she does it again and again until she does it perfectly. That means if you are leading her and she put her nose 4 inches in front of where you want it she gets backed up and we start again. I think there can appear to be a fine line between correction and abuse and for those who are not use to give strong corrections it can feel like abuse. Think of it like if your mare had a mother (as opposed to be orphaned) her mother would have kicked her and bitten her to correct her for inappropriate behavior. You are her mother and you need to act like it by correcting inappropriate behavior.

I would also say that while its a horrible idea there are some horses that are too dangerous to be around. There may come a time when this mare reaches that point. You would like to save her and keep her around. You should work towards that but be aware that no horse is worth being disabled or dying for.
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    12-24-2012, 08:09 PM
  #57
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Ruthiey    
I'm slowly learning that she is going to need a good smack or a push... I just haven't ever had to do that with any of my horses, ever.

I don't even use a lunge whip, and I use the crop for aids.

It just kind of breaks my heart I've got to do it I guess :p

I don't know if I'll get heat for suggesting this, but you can replace the popper on the lunge whip with a weed-eater string to give it a bit more bite. I've never had to do it but a good friend and horseman who I respect used this method when a horse needed a good spanking.
     
    12-24-2012, 08:41 PM
  #58
Yearling
Please please watch doing that! Have you ever been hit hard by weed eater string? If hit right it will leave a gash. I have seen people do that though or a piece of rubber extension cord which will sting and burn like a big b but it won't cut you.
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    12-24-2012, 08:43 PM
  #59
Weanling
Yikes, I didn't realize that! I wouldn't want to cut a horse no matter how naughty he/she was being.
     
    12-24-2012, 09:03 PM
  #60
Trained
Applied properly, a good whip will get any horse's attention.

Failure to use a whip and use it right is extremely cruel because eventually such acts of "kindness" will cost the horse his life. A spoiled horse is a dangerous horse and a dangerous horse is a dead horse.
     

Tags
dangerous, retraining, ugh

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