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Definition of Experienced Rider?

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    08-21-2010, 04:03 PM
  #31
Banned
Ahhh the trials of youth. If you actually ran the numbers on a 'cheap' horse they would realize that they are *ALL* expensive!

Just as an example...my last horse Nico

Bought for $300...Papered QH with running bloodlines. Great looking, good conformation...green reclaim as in he had been trained but sat for over a year without so much as a brush turned on him.

It took me 7 months to get him really going well. In the end, he was able to run a great pattern, trail ride, do basic lateral moves. Started him on jumping as something else to do with him. Could have done well in most western disciplines but wasnt built like your average "english" horse though his movement was spot on for dressage.

I sold him last week for $1400. That was more than what I was asking because I had two people who both wanted him. That is RARE.

So, on the surface you would say I 'made' $1100 on him, right? WRONG! His board for 7 months was more than the $1400 I got for him. Not to mention trimmings every 6 weeks (4 trims at $40) $160. Vet bills for shots/coggins/teeth/bloodtests $400. Time...I can't even get into how much time I spent working with him. Specialized feed $300 over 7 months.

In the end, a horse that on the outside looks like I turned a profit on...I actually lost quite a bit of money on. I don't see it that way as he was never intended to be a 'flip' project. I gained a ton of experience working with him and learned the ins and outs of a hot horse. And I loved him...thats priceless. I sold him because I lost my "real" job and needed the cash. Its a cruel world.

I wish your sister and her friend best of luck but they also need to consider that not many people are going to pay top dollar for a horse that a 12 and 15 year old has trained. Its mean to say but its the truth.
     
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    08-21-2010, 04:06 PM
  #32
Foal
When in doubt go with beginner. Trying to act like you know more than you do will not help you learn, and could get you put on a horse you can't handle. Leaving you with a bad experience.

It really depends on the person, I have seen people like myself and my daughter go from knowing nothing at all about horses to being able to handle a hot horse in just a few weeks time. Others take longer to build confidence. Nothing wrong with taking your time, if you rush yourself and go beyond your capabilities you are setting yourself up for trouble.

You will know when you are ready to move up from a beginner horse, because you will be getting bored with the easy walking around on auto-pilot following the horse in front of you.
     
    08-21-2010, 04:09 PM
  #33
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker    
When in doubt go with beginner. Trying to act like you know more than you do will not help you learn, and could get you put on a horse you can't handle. Leaving you with a bad experience.

It really depends on the person, I have seen people like myself and my daughter go from knowing nothing at all about horses to being able to handle a hot horse in just a few weeks time. Others take longer to build confidence. Nothing wrong with taking your time, if you rush yourself and go beyond your capabilities you are setting yourself up for trouble.

You will know when you are ready to move up from a beginner horse, because you will be getting bored with the easy walking around on auto-pilot following the horse in front of you.
Completely agree.
     
    08-21-2010, 06:31 PM
  #34
Guest
The Matter of a Riding Licence

Lucky asks the question: -
“What makes a novice rider, an intermediate rider or an experienced /expert rider?”

It would perhaps be easier to ask : ‘how long is a piece of string‘. I thought of trying to answer the question as raised but I gave up because of the complexity of the answer.

But the fact remains that when presenting oneself at a riding centre with the view to hiring a horse or to taking a lesson it is a very important question for which the rider should have to hand an honest and accurate answer. It is equally important for the riding centre manager to have some conformation as to the rider’s competence, It is also important that the rider neither understates his/her ability nor overstates it. As we all well know, horse riding is a dangerous sport.

Surprisingly there are as yet no universal standards for making a judgement on a horse rider’s ability and knowledge and perhaps it is time that thought was given to creating some form of grading system. Elsewhere a car driver must produce a licence to hire a car but similarly a horse rider should be able to produce some certificate of competence to handle a horse outside of the training arena.

I can understand why such a system does not yet exist but I can’t see any insurmountable obstacle to creating it should the authorities deem it to be appropriate to do so. The one problem I see to be the big difficulty is to judge and grade the performance and temperament of the horse which is, after all, the final examiner of any rider‘s ability.

My underlying concern is that if riders are not able to provide proof of competence to ride a horse in the community, then sooner or later the authorities will find reason to ban the riding of horses outside of the riding centres.

But of course, my post doesn’t answer Lucky’s question - does it?
     
    08-21-2010, 11:19 PM
  #35
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Godden    
Lucky asks the question: -
“What makes a novice rider, an intermediate rider or an experienced /expert rider?”

It would perhaps be easier to ask : ‘how long is a piece of string‘. I thought of trying to answer the question as raised but I gave up because of the complexity of the answer.

But the fact remains that when presenting oneself at a riding centre with the view to hiring a horse or to taking a lesson it is a very important question for which the rider should have to hand an honest and accurate answer. It is equally important for the riding centre manager to have some conformation as to the rider’s competence, It is also important that the rider neither understates his/her ability nor overstates it. As we all well know, horse riding is a dangerous sport.

Surprisingly there are as yet no universal standards for making a judgement on a horse rider’s ability and knowledge and perhaps it is time that thought was given to creating some form of grading system. Elsewhere a car driver must produce a licence to hire a car but similarly a horse rider should be able to produce some certificate of competence to handle a horse outside of the training arena.

I can understand why such a system does not yet exist but I can’t see any insurmountable obstacle to creating it should the authorities deem it to be appropriate to do so. The one problem I see to be the big difficulty is to judge and grade the performance and temperament of the horse which is, after all, the final examiner of any rider‘s ability.

My underlying concern is that if riders are not able to provide proof of competence to ride a horse in the community, then sooner or later the authorities will find reason to ban the riding of horses outside of the riding centres.

But of course, my post doesn’t answer Lucky’s question - does it?

I would submit to you Barry that this "judgment" of level goes on at every performance show around the world and people are viewed in classes and the winner is judged to be at that level at that time.

They have provided the proof of competence and took the day in their chosen discipline.
     
    08-23-2010, 01:09 PM
  #36
Weanling
Im not starting an argument but on the subject of young kids training young horses I agree, but im 18 and have bought a 4 year old recently to break in. I consider myself advanced intermediate maybe bit more and I have broken in other horses before both on my own and with a trainer. I don't do it for profit, more because I have the time and I like the fact that I have trained my horse myself..to my aids and wishes.. and it creates an amazing bond!

However, I still get 'adults' saying "oh your going to ruin him,your too young, you need a professional". This really annoys me as everyone has to start somewhere in terms of training a horse. I ask questions on here for advice but it doesnt mean I don't know what im doing and it doesnt mean that I shouldnt train my own horse. Im not saying SPhorsemanship is wrong to ask if the OP is training her own horse just that age is not neccessarily an indication of skill. ALthough I fully appreciate the longer you've been around, the more you learn but also, even a trainer doesnt know everything, just like me.

*Sorry for it being a bit off topic guys
     
    08-23-2010, 01:42 PM
  #37
Foal
For me I classify myself as a beginner. I can catch a horse, groom him, tack him up for the most part. I still need helping making sure the cinch on correctly.(tightness) I think all that is alot easier than handeling a horse from the saddle. But I am still getting comfortable and confident. I really don't think I will ever be an expert. I just wanna be as good as I can be. I want to be a good horsewoman that has a happy and healthy horse that respects me.
I do understand though about horse ads. I had someone tell me there horse would be ok for a beginner with some guidence. Not sure what they meant but I always ride with much more experienced people if that's what they meant.
     
    08-23-2010, 01:45 PM
  #38
Foal
There is no universal judgement of how advanced a rider is because there is no universal way to ride a horse - look at the US Pony Club and how much trouble they're having with their rating system just for English riders. Can you imagine how hard it would be to throw western riders into the mix as well?

The problem is that people can be good at different things because they have focused on what they enjoy at the expense of some other aspects. To use myself as an example - I am a pretty experience flat rider, I have done it for 20 or so years and can get horses to do what I want the vast majority of the time and teach them how to do things they don't know or haven't learned. I've riden hundreds of horses over the years (mostly on the flat), good ones, bad ones, young ones, old ones, and fallen off a good number of them . I've ridden a little bit of western although with Aussie stock tack rather than the full western gear but I do own a pair of cowboy boots

Now, I haven't done a whole bunch of jumping recently. I competed when I was young and then decided there was other stuff to do and never went back. I can still ride a horse over a jump but there is no way I would consider jumping anything but an experienced and easy horse, whereas I will ride absolutely anything on the flat. My discipline of choice has been polocrosse in which horses stop, turn and accelerate very very fast which takes as much skill as jumping, just skills that are somewhat different.

I regularly swap tips with an eventer at our barn, even though we ride very differently so there is some overlap.

My basic point is this - there is such a range of activity that you can't judge peoples ability to ride against one universal standard, you have to look at them in relation to their chosen discipline, which means you can't really judge (for example) an eventer against a polo player because there is no one universal standard.

My final point - riding experience is measured in years, not hours. If we were able it would probably be measured in lifetimes.
     

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