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A different kind of rearing thread...

2K views 19 replies 11 participants last post by  SuperStarsSugar 
#1 ·
We have a horse at our house, he is staying here for who knows how long. The problem(s) are that he rears, he has gone over backwards before, and he also bucks sometimes.

Some examples of times he has reared is when my dad was riding him before a competition for drill team and he stopped, when my dad asked him to go he reared and fell over sideways/backwards. I was riding him down a hill on the trails and at the bottom there was a mud puddle patch thing :lol:. He reared up and i jumped off before he did anything.

He is also very stubborn to a point of bucking if we try to get him to move.

Any advice?

Just to add, my dad won't let us ride him because he is dangerous so this advice will be passed on to my dad.
 
#2 ·
First, you must rule out all pain. The saddle, the joints, the hooves, the teeth, everything. No matter what you do with him, nothing will be worked out if he's in pain.

So once you rule out pain, I'm quite the fan of bonking horse's on the top of the head. Before you think I'm insane and abusive, hear me out. I like to use eggs. =P Your horse will think he hit his head on the sky, there will be a nice "cracking" sound, and goop will get all over his ears. He'll think his brain is spilling all the over the place. o_O

The problem with my method is your dad will have to actually have raw eggs on hand, and be able to "ride out" his rear one-handed, and the whole ride before his rear with an egg in his hand.

Some alterations are using rolled up newspaper. It won't hurt, but he'll feel it more. Or, I suppose your dad could use a crop, but I really wouldn't advise doing so. The poll is pretty tender. Which is, again, why I'd use eggs.
 
#3 ·
^^That's what my dad was going to do! (the eggs) lol. We were trying to figure out a way to carry the eggs, or maybe trying water balloons?

The owners have had the hooves and saddle and teeth checked, the joints could possibly be a problem.
 
#4 ·
If I am on any horse, the second I feel any upwards tendency, thwy will think the world is falling in if they don't move forwards, NOW. It is just TOO dangerous to allow it to develop. I had a friend who snapped his shoulder when a horse reared and fell on him. I yell, wave my arms, boot, over under the reins, turn them sideways if they are blocked (puddle being an example) and they are going to keeo going forward until the upward momentum is gone. It is physically impossible for a horse to rear when moving forward.

I sit calm and quiet as anything until I feel that lift, and then I go bonkers. As soon as they relax and don't have upward in their mind, i'm quiet and calm again.
 
#5 ·
Another good idea thank you!
Just for the puddle, the reason I couldn't move was because it was a semi narrow trail, and there was a line of horses behind me and woods on either side, so it was more of a through the mud puddle or nothing deal.

But again thank you :)
 
#6 ·
Get him soft so you can bend him at the poll and don't attack him when you think he might rear. Just put some bend in his body and urge him forward. Horses do the things they do because they think it's the only way for them to stay alive. They don't do it because they hate us or they want to see if they can piss us off. If you let him rear and try to hit him on the poll with an egg you might end up dead with a hand full of egg. Keep the bend in him and he physically can't rear or buck. A horse has to be straight from the nose to the tail in order to rear or buck or jump. This will require some groundwork that has obviously not been done with this horse to get him supple. I wouldn't get on this horse until I could bend his nose right around to his ribs fairly easily and disengage the hindquarters really well. If he's someone elses horse I wouldn't have him around or at least I wouldn't be riding him. It's just to much risk to get nothing out of it.
 
#7 ·
I agree with Kevin...

I have to say also that cracking a horse in the head 'may' stop the current rear, but isn't going to necessarily stop the behavior in the future. I have also come across horses who became extremely head shy, or sensitive to pressure on the poll, because they are afraid something is going to hit them there. I'm not a fan of smacking the horse for this kind of behavior, I don't care how much you want to stop it. Figure out why the horse is rearing, then figure out what should be done; usually the horse needs more understanding of the word "go". Yes, rearing is a terrible habit, but I'm just not one who believes that it's fixed simply because you whack him on the head...there's usually something else going on in the horse's head, other than "I just want to get rid of my rider by rearing"...

My current horse was not afraid to use "up" as a way to get out of going forward away from the barn or paddock. But rather than cracking him for it, I have been working on getting him to understand "go" better. I have also worked on bending and flexing, as those were often things that would cause him to want to go up...he just didn't want to do them, nor did he really understand what I wanted; Now that he has an understanding of what I am asking for, I haven't had a rear in over 2 months, nor does he show any inclination of it, because he knows that I am going to control his feet, no matter what the situation is.
 
#8 ·
I agree. I think it depends on the horse. With some horses, a thwack on the top of the head will work. These are typically only horses who are rebelling to go forward, and don't get much lift off the ground. They're not scared, they're not in pain, they're trying to avoid going forward. This method worked on Shay-las mare who had been "trained" to rear and learned to do so to avoid work. She didn't hit her, she merely held a piece of PVC above her head and let HER bonk her head when she went up. After a few sessions, Cinder has never reared again, even when given the "command" to rear (squeeze legs, pull back reins which is obviously the command to back up, and she does so now nciely).

The minute you get a "crazed" rearer, the absolute worst thing you can do is start trying to implement physical discipline. He's already flipped, and didn't learn his lesson, so why would hitting him on top of the head teach him? When a horse is rearing that high and that dangerous, any shift in your weight can spell disaster, so you need to be as quiet as possible during the rear.

However, if he's this "crazed" with his anatics, I seriously suggest seeking a vet. If a horse is so desperate to escape, he'll flip himself and continue with the behavior regardless of the pain he's just experienced, I really think there is an underlying problem. Especially combined with the bucking.

Hope you get it figured out!
 
#9 ·
I agree with Kevin.....

Horses usually go up for a couple of reasons, pain being the first, confusion or frustration being the second. They go up as part of the flight or fight. When they feel they have no other option up they go.

By teaching them to be soft you give them a comfortable place to be when things get tough for them. I also agree that you need to be in control of the "engine" the hind end at all times.

Quite frankly it sounds like your over horsed and you either need to go back to basics with him or send him back to the owners. At this point unless your dad is willing to do the ground work it's going to take I would send him back. Someone is going to get hurt.
 
#10 ·
You can find some other good suggestions by searching for "rearing" using the search feature. This seems to be a fairly common problem. I dealt with it myself this spring and started a thread on here (Naughty Rearing Horse was the title). Sorry I'm too lazy to paraphrase all the responses right now :)
 
#11 ·
Thank you all for the advice.
I would like to add nobody is riding him right now, I am just asking for suggestions.
I probably should explain more about why he is at our house, my sister was going to use him for drill team. The young girl who rode him last year does not have too much experience and her parents didn't feel safe with him because he has done this. My sister is riding one of our other horses, as well as the owner.

He is only at our house because he is not safe for any of them to ride and we haven't taken him back home since the start of the season, when my sister intended to use him.

We have no intention of buying him or using him. We are fine having him as a pasture puff, unless another team members dad(who trains ranch horses) takes him.
 
#12 · (Edited)
We have a horse at our house, he is staying here for who knows how long. The problem(s) are that he rears, he has gone over backwards before, and he also bucks sometimes.
A horse that does any or all of this stuff is a horse that for some reason, doesn't respond "correctly" to pressure. The horse doesn't want to do any of these things, but there's something lacking in the training (if there's no pain involved) and so the horse must resort to instinct to find a relief from pressure it's not understanding. A horse's natural instinct is to fight pressure not to give in to it (as we want through training).....so this horse is going to instinct....because something is wrong.

1) check for pain:
-teeth- have the teeth been floated at least once a year? if not, there may be sharp points and having a bit in his mouth can cause major pain and the unwanted behavior
-saddle- if the saddle doesn't fit the horse, if it's pinching the wither area or if the person saddling up the horse cinches up tight once, any of this will cause chronic pain flare ups that can cause unwanted behavior
-rider- if the rider tends to pull, yank or jerk on the reins, or ride with tight reins...this will cause a horse to rear up to find relief from bit pressure, and usually it's the rider that causes the horse to fall over because the rider either pulls hard on the reins at the time of the rearing up or because the rider leans back or gets off balance and the horse has no choice but to fall over.

2) If you can rule out pain 100% are absolutely positive that it isn't the issue, then it's rider error/lack of good training. The training has failed the horse and he's resorting to instinct to find a release. (see the reasons posted above under -rider-

A horse needs to know that there's going to be a release of pressure if it's to respond as the rider wants. So, if the rider wants to go forward, and kicks the horse to go but also (maybe without thinking) pulls back on the reins (lots of people mistakenly do this)....this is total confusion to the horse and this causes a horse to rear.

If the rider isn't balanced well and tends to hang on the reins too much, pulls on the reins too much, yanks the horse's head around, kicks or otherwise uses too much pressure..... all of this will cause utter confusion to the horse and cause him to rear up and buck and basically fight pressure....

Some examples of times he has reared is when my dad was riding him before a competition for drill team and he stopped, when my dad asked him to go he reared and fell over sideways/backwards. I was riding him down a hill on the trails and at the bottom there was a mud puddle patch thing :lol:. He reared up and i jumped off before he did anything.
Drill team....a sort of speed event....lots of riders tend to get heavy handed and this will cause some horses to rear or buck or whatever....too much pressure in the mouth....especially if you're using a shank bit. This is massive amounts of pressure in the sensitive mouth and it scares/confuses/frustrates the horse = rear up. Once the horse learns that when he rears he gets some form of relief (rider falls off, rider stops asking the horse for anything for a few seconds, rider offers no other alternative to a release of pressure)....rearing is now a habit and bucking goes right along with it.

He is also very stubborn to a point of bucking if we try to get him to move.
Stubborn to me, at this point, means that he's trying desperately to tell you that something is very wrong and he can't listen to you. He's not stubborn, he's not wrong. Anyone who rides him needs to be trained as to how to use the reins properly....light pressure. Use your seat and legs more, and your hands less (never pull, yank or jerk, always just take out the slack and use your legs to drive the horse forward...never kick, never jab with spurs, but use an escalation of pressure (squeeze, spank with rhythm, over under, never just a whack)

Any advice?
1) make sure it's not pain. Get a chiropractor. This horse has been flipping over so many times (once is enough) he's bound to of hurt himself physically and may have chronic pain due to this, or an ill-fitting saddle, etc.... Yes, chiros work wonders. I've seen it for myself.

2) make sure the teeth are in great shape

3) get a saddle that fits properly...or if the saddle does fit, make sure it's not jacked up tight once, but rather, cinch it up soft and again and again, about 3-4 times (walking the horse in between times) and then mount up.

4) get a trainer to retrain this horse to soften and give to pressure and get that trainer to give you and your dad (or whoever is going to ride this horse) some training lessons as to how to use pressure properly.

5) please don't bonk him on the head with anything. This is old school crap that should be put to rest like bucking a horse out. There are better ways that work,....like treating the horse with a little more dignity. He's not a dumb animal that likes to rear up to scare you, he's scared/confused/frustrated/in pain...one of those or all of those....and he's desperately trying to tell you that he needs help. Teaching him to flex and disengage his hips (moving the hips over, to cross the hind feet) and to bend bend bend...to soften the body and get his mindset to where it should be....wanting to figure out where the release of pressure is (his reward for listening to the rider)....instead of fighting.....that's all he wants.

Better communication. That's all it takes.

I've retrained enough rearing horses to know that this humane approach works and it sticks. It's just about giving the horse a better alternative to his natural instincts. That's it.

Training vs instincts. He's got to listen to one or the other. Depending on how good the training equals which one he'll listen to.
 
#14 ·
Calamity Jane has given you just about all the advice you could need. But she didn't ask you the 50$ question - why do you want to ride a horse that is known to rear - indeed so high that it has come over backwards?

That horse weighs 500 kilos say 1100 lbs and if it falls on you, then you will "dent" at best, "break" at worst.

If you could find some professional to do the rehabilitation for you, then maybe it might be worthwhile for the horse's sake - but would it be cost effective to you?

There are tens of thousands of horses out there looking for good homes. Find for yourself and your friends a nice one and give it a good home. By nice one incidentally I mean: no rearing, no striking, no double barrelled bucking, no biting, no bolting, no balking and one easy to catch in a big field.
It can be any colour, it can be any breed; it's mostly easier if it is a gelding and it must have four legs. It's favourite if it comes up to you and licks your hand with a big slobbery tongue.
But whatever - it must not be classifiable as "lawless".

Let this poor chap eat the grass - he is happy that way.
There's a reason for his bad behaviour and maybe one day you might find out - but don't bet on it.

Life is too short anyway - don't make it any shorter.

Barry G
 
#16 ·
Again we don't want to ride this horse, but we do not habe a lot of leftover money. We have enough to take care of all our horses and give them what they need. But one less horse makes a big difference in the bills. I just want to give him the best chance at life, if it is more likely to find him a riding home then we want him to be safe for other people, we aren't going to sell him or give him away to someone unaware of this or who can't handle it. We are not going to pay for someone elses horse's training. Again we don't have a lot of leftover money. Me and my friend both have amazing horses that are great at drill team. We don't need or want another horse.

To repeat, I just want this horse to have the best possible life... He might be going to an excellent trainer/rider, or back to the owners to be a pasture puff.

We do not want to train him for us and he is NOT being ridden at all. Just looking for tips
 
#15 ·
Before our government got involved there used to be a place to take these kind of horses where they could be put to use( with boulubaise and a nice red wine) but now they just get neglected to death or hurt someone and get put down. It's best to cut loses sometimes and find something more suitable.
 
#17 · (Edited)
If you have no intention of riding him, and the owner is willing, list this horse, and his issues somewhere, and find him an owner who IS capable of fixing him...he could probably do with the time off right now, but either way, he needs to find someone who knows how to address these issues without confusing or frustrating him more. :D Be totally honest with potential buyers, because you don't want someone to buy him, and get hurt because they don't know about it...list him as a project horse, and disclose what you know. Someone will come along...I would but I'm in AZ...Lol!

My Appy was the same way when I got him (well, no buck) but the rearing; and he was doing it because he didn't understand "go" very well, especially when asked to go away from the paddock, nor did he understand what bending and flexing were, or how to properly react when I gave that pressure. He's not offered a rear since I got him to understand bending and flexing (ground first), and doesn't do it when I ask him to go either...chances are this guy just needs alot of ground work, on bending, flexing, and learning that 'go' means go.
 
#19 ·
^^It is ok, I also hope we can find him a good home

mom2pride-The owner is willing to find him a new home, he just doesn't feel comfortable selling a possibly dangerous horse. He knows someone could handle it, he just is worried someone will get hurt, I think that he doesn't want to always have that on his mind. Again we might have someone who is a great trainer and rider and hopefully the horse will go to him.
 
#20 ·
My horse used to refuse to move forward and rear when asked to move because she was really tender-sided from being "cowboyed" around a lot, and what I did to cure her of this was instead of using seat cues then moving on to leg cues, I would use seat cues then move on to a smacking her on the butt with a rope softly and rythmically, slowly increasing tempo until she moved forward. That helped her a lot. Also, as far as a response when the horse has already reared, what I do is wait until their front end touches down and then make them disengage their hindquarters right away. I would never reccomend backing them up after rearing, as that tends to feed the up-and-back thing.
 
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