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Differentiating between cues

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        02-07-2013, 04:44 PM
      #11
    Trained
    I like to keep my legs quiet until I cue. I squeeze my calves, legs parallel to cue for a walk from a halt, heels down, and a stronger cue to cue for a trot from a halt. I ride with a pair of Prince of Wales blunt end spurs. When my horse doesn't listen to the calf, he gets the spur. If a horse doesn't move with the spur, I get off. In my experience a horse that is stubborn to move is considering exploding upwards. Constant spurring, to emphasize that my horse listen to my leg better, is counterproductive. It frightens and annoys the horse to do so. Better to spend some time on the ground getting a more immediate response, first.
    When I want to canter from the walk or halt, I move my inside leg forward and my outside leg backward, and use my whole lower leg.
    "Corporal", (1982-2009, RIP), my Arabian, was very sensitive, and he loved to move out. We could wow the crowd with my "invisible cues."
    Many trainers today suggest that you start "trotting" with your body when you are asking for the trot, and start cantering with your body when cueing for the canter.
    There is a lot of hit and miss with training with your weight. It is a LOT like ballroom dancing, where the lead dancer gives standard cues. The dancer who follows those cues can make mistakes, but if she keeps practicing, the connection gets better and better.
    TheBayArab likes this.
         
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        02-07-2013, 10:43 PM
      #12
    Trained
    What discipline are you intending to ride? That has a huge effect on what cues you will be using...
         
        02-07-2013, 10:51 PM
      #13
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    What discipline are you intending to ride? That has a huge effect on what cues you will be using...
    Pretty much all of them xD. English, jumping, western, etc. He's an arab so he can do a lot. I won't be showing him much though he will mostly just be a pleasure horse, so we don't have to get too much into the specifics.
         
        02-07-2013, 11:10 PM
      #14
    Trained
    Well, from an English point of view, toss that entire list of "cues" in the bin, they are rubbish, poorly explained and incorrect.

    Cues in English are not specific to movements, they are specific to reactions. For example, a leg applied behind the girth asks the horse to move the body sideways away from that leg. This is accompanied by seat aids - to simplify it, weight and "openess" in the direction of travel. Bit aids are still used, but much more subtly than you seem to think. Most of the time it is either "open" or "closed" aids - an open hand allows movement forwards, a closed hand blocks it. Once you understand how each different aid makes the horse react, then you can join them together to make movements. For example, to turn right. The weight in my seat shifts slightly to the inside, but not drastically. My inside leg stays steady at the girth, while my outside (left) leg comes back slighty and asks the hindquarters to shift slightly so the horse rounds around my inside leg. I would have open hands, with a touch of "almost" closed on the inside (right) rein, but being careful not to let the left rein drop. The open hands say "keep going forward" while the slight close on the inside hand says "come forward less on this side so that your outside turns around you".
         
        02-08-2013, 12:05 AM
      #15
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corporal    
    I started English. I don't really understand the "Western" thing about keeping your leg off of your horse until you want to cue. I find that this is impossible on a lengthy--4 hours of more--trail ride, so it's an oxymoron, at least to me, bc I always keep my leg on my horse when I ride.
    I have had horses in 1985, and all of my lesson horses have since passed on. Right now I have 3 horses, a KMHSA mare, who will turn 15yo this year, a KMH gelding who will turn 7yo this year, and a QH, who will turn 7yo this year. I am training them to cue from my weight. I ride that way, anyway. I have watched Julie Goodnight ride this way on several of her programs. You can work towards and expect an instant response of walk to halt, as well as walk from the halt. All of the Dressage trainers works that I have read emphasize riding with your weight. At the very least we should all learn to follow the walk, trot and canter quietly. I believe our horses appreciate it when you don't interfere with their movement.
    To the bolded statement: I am curious as to who says that western is about holding the leg off until cueing?
    I ride western, I do not hold my legs off, he needs to be able to hold himself between my legs. I drive with my seat and legs, my leg position of course will also determine my horses body position.
         
        02-08-2013, 12:07 AM
      #16
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
    To the bolded statement: I am curious as to who says that western is about holding the leg off until cueing?
    I ride western, I do not hold my legs off, he needs to be able to hold himself between my legs. I drive with my seat and legs, my leg position of course will also determine my horses body position.
    There has to be a difference between a static leg position and an active cue, otherwise the horse cannot tell which is which. Legs should be against the horse's side, but static until you want to make a change to the horse.
         
        02-08-2013, 12:16 AM
      #17
    Trained
    I agree. I was trying to figure out where that idea came from(holding the legs off) no one I have ever rode with/for has encouraged it.
         
        02-08-2013, 12:18 AM
      #18
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    Well, from an English point of view, toss that entire list of "cues" in the bin, they are rubbish, poorly explained and incorrect.

    Cues in English are not specific to movements, they are specific to reactions. For example, a leg applied behind the girth asks the horse to move the body sideways away from that leg. This is accompanied by seat aids - to simplify it, weight and "openess" in the direction of travel. Bit aids are still used, but much more subtly than you seem to think. Most of the time it is either "open" or "closed" aids - an open hand allows movement forwards, a closed hand blocks it. Once you understand how each different aid makes the horse react, then you can join them together to make movements. For example, to turn right. The weight in my seat shifts slightly to the inside, but not drastically. My inside leg stays steady at the girth, while my outside (left) leg comes back slighty and asks the hindquarters to shift slightly so the horse rounds around my inside leg. I would have open hands, with a touch of "almost" closed on the inside (right) rein, but being careful not to let the left rein drop. The open hands say "keep going forward" while the slight close on the inside hand says "come forward less on this side so that your outside turns around you".
    I think the list of cues actually provides a good elementary description of the cues. When you're first starting out riding English, the idea of aids, particularly with your seat, can seem rather abstract. It's a difficult thing to put into words, if you ask me. Even if you know how to do it, explaining what you're doing to someone else can be a challenge. The mental imagery the list of cues provides will be helpful to some riders in giving them a reference point in regards to how it will feel to deliver certain cues.
         
        02-08-2013, 12:53 AM
      #19
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JaphyJaphy    
    I think the list of cues actually provides a good elementary description of the cues. When you're first starting out riding English, the idea of aids, particularly with your seat, can seem rather abstract. It's a difficult thing to put into words, if you ask me. Even if you know how to do it, explaining what you're doing to someone else can be a challenge. The mental imagery the list of cues provides will be helpful to some riders in giving them a reference point in regards to how it will feel to deliver certain cues.
    I agree that their descriptions are very detailed and it is easy to visualise what they mean for you to do. It doesn't change the fact that the aids given are wrong for what you are intending to do, eg to turn they suggest the outside leg should come FORWARD instead of go back slightly.
         
        02-08-2013, 02:16 AM
      #20
    Super Moderator
    Western riders shouldn't ride with their leg Off the horse. HOwever, they may have less leg on in the sense that they often have long spurs, so it takes a very small movement to tickle the horse, instead of a whole calf on to get forward movement in many English horses.


    I would have a hard time memorizing that list. Please don't give me a test later, I'd flunk.

    I tend to think of the aids as connected to the four corners of the hrose, and combine all four of them (well, wait a minute, with the seat, it's more than four, oh never mind!) to move the horse in various directions. But, I am no champ at this.

    What I really wanted to say was the aid that most people neglect is the mind. Your mind and the horse's mind. If you really THINK what you want him to do, you'd be amazed at how perceptive he will be. And you don't bother asking him to do things until you've got his mind on you, then you'll have a lot less gray area blah type of reactions, and a lot more " I know what you want me to do and I'll do it" from your equine partner.


    The other day I was trying to get Zulu to back up a hill, as I often ask him to do. But, he was so focussed on going home that he was leaning on my hands and dragging his feet. I stopped and kind of tickled the reins and spoke to him, "Hey! Get your head in the game!" and asked again, (after his ear had flicked back at me) and it went much , much better.
    JaphyJaphy likes this.
         

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