Do you tie horses Solid or to something breakable - Page 3
 
 

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Do you tie horses Solid or to something breakable

This is a discussion on Do you tie horses Solid or to something breakable within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • What kind of soft rope to use to tie up horses leg
  • Bhs quick release knot

View Poll Results: Should a be tied solidly or otherwise?
A Horse should be tied to solid objects, unbreakable 34 59.65%
A Horse should be tied firmly, but breakable with pressure 24 42.11%
A horse should be stand on a visual signal from the rope, but not actually tied to anything 14 24.56%
Horses don't need to know how to stand still 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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    08-25-2013, 06:54 AM
  #21
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
I really do think there are so many 'it depends' in these things
If a horse is properly trained from the start to give to pressure and have a clear grasp of what 'stand' means they generally won't try to run back and get free for no good reason.
I think the main reason the UK mostly don't tie without a breaking point is that its the British Horse Society preferred method and one that is used by most professionals that people listen too. There was even a BHS statement in one of the leading magazines over there warning people that nylon baling twine shouldn't be used as it doesn't break easily enough
I think maybe our general set up of yards impacts it - under insurance laws commercially run yards should all have a gate that's closed at all times, most show grounds also have closed gate systems as do private owners so the risks of a loose horse getting onto a road are probably less.
My horses will stand without being tied or if I just put the rope through the ring or over a fence - they think they're tied up. They are also pretty good at not over reacting to loud noises - usually the trigger for a panic because I think that having them trained to not bolt off from the scary thing is essential for safety
I've worked with a lot of horses, been around lots of show grounds and auction sites and used to get hijacked by two local mixed vet practices in the UK where they mostly didn't have a vet nurse that was used to horses. I don't say this with the intention of frightening anyone - but I have seen some awful injuries caused by horses being tied to something it couldn't break free where the owners couldn't get to the fastening point quickly enough or get to it without risking themselves because they were in a tight space with a horse thrashing on the floor and also on horses being tied to something where their was no release and they pulled doors of hinges, bricks out of walls, rails off gates
These issues are almost always down to holes in initial training, people not knowing enough about the horse before they tie it or tying in risky situations.
I use quick release clips if I need to tie securely - they are a lot safer than a quick release knot which I can vouch will be too tight to unfasten if enough force is put behind it - if you use the knot method you should always have a good sharp knife handy
I've had a thicker form of nylon baling twine fail to break on Brock (before he was a well-mannered horse). He got the lead over his nose (it was very short, I don't know how he managed it!) and panicked, ended up nearly pulling the stable wall down. The thinner types of baling twine have always broken for me, but may not with a smaller horse or pony.

As for the quick-release knots, they have proved useless in the only two situations I ever needed them, the one I mentioned above and another when my friend's non-horse husband solid tied Star (he did use a quick release, he knows how to do them as he's a keen sailor and loves his knots) and she climbed the stable wall for some unknown reason, got her front leg looped over the rope and fell over. Both times the weight behind the knot was too much and it tightened too much to release at all. In the first instance I managed to undo the clip on Brock's halter (very difficult with him half rearing and me trying to keep safe) and the other I had to cut the rope before Star broke her neck or leg or something.

So now, if I can't tie to thin baling twine I don't tie at all, just ground-tie.
     
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    08-25-2013, 09:56 AM
  #22
Weanling
I tie solid, my horse knows how to release himself from pressure. If something spooks him and he starts to panic, a loud HEY! From me to get his attention will have him refocusing, taking a step forward, and chew/licking. Smart horse.
     
    08-25-2013, 10:09 AM
  #23
Yearling
I always tie to something breakable, like baler twine. Why? Because, I think, no matter how well trained a horse is, its still an animal. An unpredictable animal. And if it is tied to something unbreakable and it does pull back, I wouldn't want it to injure its neck, if I can't untie it, or I can't get to it in time. (I always use quick release knots though btw). I just think its safer to tie to something breakable.
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    08-27-2013, 01:50 PM
  #24
Weanling
Your poll was difficult to answer with one selection. I selected two: Yes I prefer to tie with unbreakable gear to an unbreakable tie point, such as a large tree. However, a horse should stand willingly tied to nothing but a lead hanging from his halter or reins dropped on the ground.

I find that if my horse knows he cannot escape his tie, he stops trying. If he learns he can break away, he will do it when he feels the need. The more often he feels the need, the more he will learn to break away when it suits him.

More to the safety point, a horse that expects to be able to break away is more prone to panic when he finds he cannot. He may be only slightly spooked at first, but when he suddenly realizes his lead is not breaking, it quickly becomes panic and turns dangerous. A horse that knows from training and experience that he cannot break free under any circumstances, is less prone to panic when tied.

So my answer was "both A and C. Interestingly, your poll accepted both.
     
    08-27-2013, 01:54 PM
  #25
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenrie    
More to the safety point, a horse that expects to be able to break away is more prone to panic when he finds he cannot. He may be only slightly spooked at first, but when he suddenly realizes his lead is not breaking, it quickly becomes panic and turns dangerous. A horse that knows from training and experience that he cannot break free under any circumstances, is less prone to panic when tied.
I couldn't agree more. There are too many people that don't realize this. Even at their most frightened, my horses don't set back. They will move back and forth to where the end of the lead allows, but they don't set back.
     
    08-27-2013, 02:04 PM
  #26
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilHorseOfDoom    
I've had a thicker form of nylon baling twine fail to break on Brock (before he was a well-mannered horse). He got the lead over his nose (it was very short, I don't know how he managed it!) and panicked, ended up nearly pulling the stable wall down. The thinner types of baling twine have always broken for me, but may not with a smaller horse or pony.

As for the quick-release knots, they have proved useless in the only two situations I ever needed them, the one I mentioned above and another when my friend's non-horse husband solid tied Star (he did use a quick release, he knows how to do them as he's a keen sailor and loves his knots) and she climbed the stable wall for some unknown reason, got her front leg looped over the rope and fell over. Both times the weight behind the knot was too much and it tightened too much to release at all. In the first instance I managed to undo the clip on Brock's halter (very difficult with him half rearing and me trying to keep safe) and the other I had to cut the rope before Star broke her neck or leg or something.

So now, if I can't tie to thin baling twine I don't tie at all, just ground-tie.
I have never had a properly tied safety knot fail to release, even with the weight of a horse hard against it. I suspect that (without disparaging your sailor husband's savvy) either the knots were improperly tied, or there was something about the kind of lead rope you used that caused your knot to tighten to the point it would not release. Interestingly, I have come across very few horse owners in my time who actually know how to tie a safety knot. Normally they simply tie an overhand knot with the rope doubled, thinking it will simply pull out. It will not. A properly tied horse-tie knot will not over-tighten against itself.
EvilHorseOfDoom likes this.
     
    08-28-2013, 04:03 AM
  #27
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenrie    
I have never had a properly tied safety knot fail to release, even with the weight of a horse hard against it. I suspect that (without disparaging your sailor husband's savvy) either the knots were improperly tied, or there was something about the kind of lead rope you used that caused your knot to tighten to the point it would not release. Interestingly, I have come across very few horse owners in my time who actually know how to tie a safety knot. Normally they simply tie an overhand knot with the rope doubled, thinking it will simply pull out. It will not. A properly tied horse-tie knot will not over-tighten against itself.
I think it is very possibly the type of leadrope, which was a soft cotton sort. Not my husband though, if it had been he would have got a right bollocking! I've had one not release before as well, the soft cotton leads tighten on themselves and act like a squeezed caterpillar. Had it been my proper 20ft "cowboy" lead made from woven nylon it would most likely have released - but these types of lead rope aren't that common in barns over here!

ETA: A photo of the sort used over here by most people:



As you can see, plenty of squishiness and parts to resist being undone. Not ideal at all but the common type used. Perhaps that's why we tie to twine in English barns? Bit of a chicken and egg question! (On a similar note show people often use a short chain rather than a leadrope. I've seen them usually clipped to twine but once or twice clipped straight to the iron ring! Which is hardly ideal given so many show horses are fed to the eyeballs and quite young )
Clava likes this.
     
    08-28-2013, 05:18 PM
  #28
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilHorseOfDoom    
I think it is very possibly the type of leadrope, which was a soft cotton sort. Not my husband though, if it had been he would have got a right bollocking! I've had one not release before as well, the soft cotton leads tighten on themselves and act like a squeezed caterpillar. Had it been my proper 20ft "cowboy" lead made from woven nylon it would most likely have released - but these types of lead rope aren't that common in barns over here!

ETA: A photo of the sort used over here by most people:



As you can see, plenty of squishiness and parts to resist being undone. Not ideal at all but the common type used. Perhaps that's why we tie to twine in English barns? Bit of a chicken and egg question! (On a similar note show people often use a short chain rather than a leadrope. I've seen them usually clipped to twine but once or twice clipped straight to the iron ring! Which is hardly ideal given so many show horses are fed to the eyeballs and quite young )
Yup. That would probably be the answer. The only reason I ever use a soft cotton rope, like the one shown, is to tie up a horse's back hoof when he's giving me trouble working with him. A lower chance of a rope burn with those.
boots and EvilHorseOfDoom like this.
     
    08-28-2013, 10:47 PM
  #29
Weanling
Hay Punktank, great topic I have enjoyed reading every ones opinions. I work at a summer camp we have 21 horses that come in all most every day Monday - Friday all summer long. We tie hard and fast and as "unbreakable" as I can. When I first came to work here 7 years ago they never tied the horse, one would walk away from the hitching area a wrangler would go get it and put it back over and over. I changed that and for about a mouth we had lots of pull-back problems. Now 7 years later, the horses stand tied and only pull back from time to time. We use rope halters with lead ropes tied hard to the halter. We tie with a quick release note and I require all my staff to have a knife on them while at work (if the note won't pull, a knife will) I think in 7 years I have had to cut two or three ropes mostly from a horse pulling back and falling down.

In India they teach elephants to tie by tying the baby elephant to something it can't break once the elephant its big and can break anything it never does because it has learned it can't.
I use the same idea with horses tie them up don't let them break loss, they will learn they can't get loss.
jannette likes this.
     
    08-29-2013, 05:26 AM
  #30
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyBob    
I changed that and for about a mouth we had lots of pull-back problems. Now 7 years later, the horses stand tied and only pull back from time to time. We use rope halters with lead ropes tied hard to the halter. We tie with a quick release note and I require all my staff to have a knife on them while at work (if the note won't pull, a knife will) I think in 7 years I have had to cut two or three ropes mostly from a horse pulling back and falling down.

.
So you still get pull backs and require a knife to free them, and in 7 years you've had to cut two or three ropes in situation where a horse could have been injured (or died if it had broken it's neck) - for me that is far too great a risk for horses that are my friends and ones I keep for their whole lives.
     

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