domonate filly with kicking habit... - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 24 Old 11-24-2009, 01:32 AM
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Best guess is she's dead to normal flight response. Flight response is what you use to control movement i.e.. twirl a rope, the horse moves…not because they are afraid, but because it's their nature to move away from aggressive action…shake a flag at them, they want to move, you tell them to stand, they do, you've controlled their flight response. Truth be told, she reminds me of an imprinting gone wrong…where anything and everything was done to her and now she's basically desensitized to life...she has no sensitivity. First thing I would suggest you do is get her away from familiar surroundings and work with her in a totally new environment.
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post #12 of 24 Old 11-24-2009, 02:05 AM
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I definitely agree with Macabre, you just need to get serious about your dominance. My gelding isn't a kicker, he's a biter, but the principle is still the same.....obviously if they're confidant enough to get physical, you need to be getting physical too. Since she's obviously not scared or flighty, quick reflexes/reprimands and lots of loud "the world as you know it is going to end now that you've tried to kick me" noises would only knock her down a few notches on the pecking order ladder--which is a good thing! (I'm assuming when you lunge her you're in a round pen) Have you tried banging the end of the whip on the rails? I've never known a horse that likes metallic clanging sounds.

As for your opinion on NH, I think it might have a place in her training eventually, but from what you've described her personality as, it would probably only serve you getting hurt since its not something you'd be comfortable with anyway.

There are some days when I wish you could just kick them back.....
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post #13 of 24 Old 11-24-2009, 04:38 AM
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I am halfway in between NH and the other methods.
In the wild, horses have a lead mare and thats what you need to be.
There will be some who tell you not to hit a horse, that its un-natural and cruel but in fact it is very beneficial.
A lead mare in the wild will discipline the other horses. However, once the horses have grasped the fact that they will get kicked, bit etc they will not do it again. And if they do, the lead mare just threatens and it generally stops their bad behaviour.

With my horses, they receive a slap if they begin doing something naughty for the first time. It discourages them from doing it again. They are so acustomed to it now, they can read my body language and know when they are in trouble just by the raising of my hand or voice.

I completely agree with Macabre. That method I find is extremely effective, but needs to be done all the time. Eventually she should grasp it. Remember, not to be nervous. You need to be in charge and be the dominant one.

And sometimes I find just spending time with a horse can greatly improve its personality. My gelding was feral and un-social when I got him, but after just sitting on the fence and watching him and giving him attention when he came over, his temperament changed a lot.

NH could also be good for this filly. I like Paralli and I find it can be effective but not on all horses. However, thats not to say you shouldn't try it. My methods are kinda a mish-mash of NH and tough love. You need to find what works for her because every horse is different.

Good luck with this, and keep us updated.
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post #14 of 24 Old 11-24-2009, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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I have used the 7 games before but not on her. I tried free lounging in the round pen, then I put the lounge line on her in the round pen and I also tried it outside. I'm headed to my dads to drink some coffee, then off the the stables!! Ill try everyones advice... And ill let you know how today goes when I get back!
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post #15 of 24 Old 11-24-2009, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Well it started out to be a promising day, Beth's little filly was working really well for me on the lounge line both directions! So I took her into the round pen, and she did a 360 degree turn when I tried to free lounge her. Bulked, turned her butt to me and did her kicking thing when I asked her to move out. I went from kiss, to twirling the rope, poping it on the ground, poping it on her hindquarters firmly and increased the momentum, but still nothing, so I switched to the whip and poped the whip on the round pen rail right behind her and she kicked out at me so I poped her legs and she decided she was going to do her famous, reverse kick, reverse kick till I stepped back well this time I had a little suprise for, I stood my ground, kept the pressure on her and when she invated my space and came within leg distance of kicking me and raised that leg to get me good, I had a suprise for her... Whiped out the cattle prod, first I warned her as she reversed in my space even more I zaped it and it made that well known sound, then when she didn't leave me I met her kicking half way with a good solid shock on her left hind leg and she BOLTED! I bet she ran about 10 laps around that pen and I just released all pressure and let her realize what happened. That was the only time I had to actually use it on her bec for the next hour, she kept facing me instead of turning her rear to me! Sucess! She learned that kicking and invading my space gave her a heck of a suprise! I didn't ever want it to come to me actually taken the stable owners advice but for the hour I worked her, she didn't once dear turn her butt to me let alone be stuborn and kick. I'm sure it will take weeks of constent work to have her moving out off light pressure but that cattle prod worked and I doubt I will ever have to actually use it again. Beth was happy to see her finally moving around the round pen like she very well knew she better. Like I said before, if a horse is willing to invade my space and injure me... She needs a good shock to get her back in line.
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post #16 of 24 Old 11-24-2009, 03:53 PM
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So I just read through all of this and I learned a lot/am glad that you found something that worked. I was going to say to try the cattle prod when she got to close to you but it looks like you already did that! I know of 2 colts that are too desensitized and have not much knowledge about your space. They think they are "cute" and like puppy dogs and i HATE handling them. One of them literally ran me over the other day when i was closing a gate b/c he didn't want to be locked in the pasture. Any ways if they were mine they would get their butts in trouble but they aren't so i can't do anything.

But keep us posted on your progress

:: Karley ::
Tucker WB/TB- 11 yr
Speedy QH/TB- 22 yr
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post #17 of 24 Old 11-24-2009, 03:54 PM
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*chuckles* You know, it's ironic, but when you said she was THAT bad, my first thought was "Get a cattle prod already". I figured that would be a little much in the advocation of force, but good for you if it worked. I know we never like to hurt our horses, but if they're THAT serious about causing us physical injury, we need to show that as the boss, we're not backing down - and obviously that sometimes involves extreme methods. I doubt you'll ever have to do it to her again - you've finally broken the line of thinking in her brain that she can always win and she's going to be darn cautious about being so free to let those heels fly.

The absolute most dangerous type of horse is one that has learned that humans can't make them do anything. I'd rather work with a buck wild range colt any day of the week then a horse who's been spoiled and allowed to enter the range of thinking that humans can't do diddly squat to them. I think that's why I dislike natural horsemanship sometimes, because it's great if it works, but if you get a clever horse that manages to figure out nothing bad is actually going to happen aside from eyes staring him down, they can become downright dangerous. Obviously to much force can produce the same results, which is why I firmly believe some horses may benefit from NH and some may benefit from a more forceful approach. It all depends on what type of thinker they are!

I hope God tells her to smash her computer with a sledgehammer.

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post #18 of 24 Old 11-24-2009, 04:57 PM
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exactly what MacabreMikolaj said.

quarter horses.....simply the best
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post #19 of 24 Old 11-25-2009, 12:47 AM
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I think you're on your way to something

As Macabre said, you basically had to do what you had to do, and you won't likely have to do it again. I would hate to ever have to go to that much of an extreme to get a horse to move out, and fortunately never have so far (even though I have had some pretty tough ones!), but, if I had one that absolutely refused to move out like her, I would have to consider an option such as that. I would rather do that once, than get my chest kicked in!

"The ideal horseman has the courage of a lion, the patience of a saint, and the hands of a woman..."
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post #20 of 24 Old 11-25-2009, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Ya I never wanted to go to that extream. This morning she decided to do the kicking thing on the lounge line and be stubborn so I zapped the cattle prod (didn't touch her with it just made it make the sound) and she purked up and it was like her saying "ok ok ill stop just don't zap me, ill listen I promise!" and she pranced around great and them I took her into the round pen and she worked wonderful and even has started showing signs of hooking up with me. She made smaller circles, turned to the inside to change directions and has been doing a lot of licking and chewing when I tell her woah. So that's awesome, I'm happy and Beth is so excited that soon she will be the one in the round pen with her filly gaining respect.
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