English Riders... Help?? - The Horse Forum

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post #1 of 19 Old 06-25-2010, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Question English Riders... Help??

Let me start by saying I am not an english rider. I train cattle horses. But my 3 yr old filly has the look and movement of an english horse. (Or so I thought)

Now I am working with a trainer in this area who trains. Because I would like to get my 3 yr old ready to show in English for a friend to ride. And would love to take her to the appaloosa nationals next year.
Now... I was told bythis trainer that an english horse's poll should never be below their withers... however.. at all the shows I have been to and videos I just watched on another thread of the QH congress/world show.. the english horses move like WP horses!

Now she was shown in a small show and placed 2nd and 3rd in HUS and equitation... with my limited knowledge of english training.

So is that how they should look... or is the trainer Im working with correct?
Please explain.....

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post #2 of 19 Old 06-25-2010, 02:30 PM
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Are you talking HUS (hunter under saddle)? Yes, they carry their heads lower in that discipline.

For something like English Pleasure or Saddleseat, the trainer's correct. You want a more upright carriage of the head and neck, with the horse's head bent at the poll and vertical. Above or behind the vertical is undesirable.

It depends on the the English discipline in which you want to show her, whether or not her head is carried higher.
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post #3 of 19 Old 06-25-2010, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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that's the class she placed in... Not HUS... my bad.
Im horrible with these names.
She got 2nd in English pleasure, 3rd in English Equitation.

Many people have sighed for the 'good old days' and regretted the 'passing of the horse,' but today, when only those who like horses own them, it is a far better time for horses. ~C.W. Anderson
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post #4 of 19 Old 06-25-2010, 05:21 PM
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I don't show in breed shows, but from what I've seen, breed show horses, especially QH tend to go with their heads much lower. In all the hunter shows I've been in and taken students to, I've never seen one horse with that low head set place, but to be fair, I stick with schooling and C rated shows mostly. I don't like that low set, it just bugs me, but that's strictly my opinion. I'm sure others love it. And in breed shows, that appears to be what they strive for. Any breed show people out there with thought on this?

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post #5 of 19 Old 06-25-2010, 05:33 PM
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It's not in the Arab breed shows, I can tell you that.

Arabians have naturally high head carriages, so there's no below the wither head carriage unless it's a WP class.

Even with WP, the Arabian folks are getting out of the whole peanut roller look, and letting the horses carry their heads more naturally.
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post #6 of 19 Old 06-25-2010, 06:27 PM
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I've seen it in the Quarter and Paint shows. I always assumed it was because in the breed shows you have so many that cross over from Western to English going for points. I figured it was simpler for them to maintain that headset for both because of that. I could be wrong, just my deduction. I've never liked the "pushin' peanuts" look, or that lame-looking quasi-lope that is now illegal, was it a 3 beat? I can't remember. I just remember it was popular for a while, and now they are going back to a proper lope, thank goodness (to me it just looked painful). But I'm no Western expert, I only play western, lol.

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post #7 of 19 Old 06-25-2010, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowgirl140ty View Post
Now... I was told bythis trainer that an english horse's poll should never be below their withers... however.. at all the shows I have been to and videos I just watched on another thread of the QH congress/world show.. the english horses move like WP horses!

Now she was shown in a small show and placed 2nd and 3rd in HUS and equitation... with my limited knowledge of english training.

So is that how they should look... or is the trainer Im working with correct?
Please explain.....
As already posted you will need to know just what circuit you are showing.

In true English HUS classes the head neck will never be below the withers. If you understand just where hunting horses came from and what they were used for throughout history no self respecting horse would travel like that over rough terrain or be able to jump fences in that position.

The western world has answered a call from their members that wanted to mimic what is done in the English world but they are set on having a low head carriage that is taken from the western pleasure. So by placing an English saddle on basically a western pleasure horse and moving it out a bit more and being judged by the SAME judges that judge western pleasure it is only natural you get little or no difference.

So you will have to decide where your horse fits. A video might help to see if you are on the right track.
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post #8 of 19 Old 06-28-2010, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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I don't have any video... I am woking on getting some. But here are some pictures of her at just a local open show (keep in mind it was her 3rd time under english saddle and she is only 3yrs old). And the most of the people at this show did exactly what you said Spyder, put english saddles on WP horses. Now the horses that beat her, looked to me how an english horse should look and move (from what I have been told).

Trotting


Cantering:


Transition from canter to walk:

Many people have sighed for the 'good old days' and regretted the 'passing of the horse,' but today, when only those who like horses own them, it is a far better time for horses. ~C.W. Anderson
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post #9 of 19 Old 06-28-2010, 10:18 AM
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Yup looks very English hunter to me.
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post #10 of 19 Old 06-28-2010, 10:43 AM
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You will have to look at the rule book for that specific breed show. For AQHA it is not supposed to be below the withers.

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