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Establishing Trust and a better bond with your horse

This is a discussion on Establishing Trust and a better bond with your horse within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Establishing trust with your horse
  • Establishing horse trust

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    06-26-2013, 12:44 AM
  #21
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangGirl    
I just checked out her website. She seems fairly priced (if you are into trick training) but what killed it for me was the reviews. Out of ALL of the reviews, not one negative. There wasn't even a 4 star. Not even 4.5. All 5 star reviews with training programs that most haven't even heard about scream "run away!" to me. But, maybe I'm wrong, as I oftentimes am.
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Thats cause theres nothing negative to say lol. Not even on her facebook page. She's also fairly new to the horse training dvd thing.
     
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    06-26-2013, 12:52 AM
  #22
Showing
Pretty cool if you're into that sort of thing. I can appreciate that not everyone wants the same things out of their horses as I do...because I don't have any interest in trick training.

I'm sure that what she did is really impressive to some folks, and I can't fault them for being impressed because not everyone can get their horses to do that, but I'd like to see her do something like this... (the black horse is my favorite)
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    06-26-2013, 06:27 AM
  #23
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackstar    
We all have different beliefs and I respect that. My horses mean more to me than something that just obeys my every command. And like I said, there is a lot more to the method than the taking territory part. Its one of those things you have to see in person to understand. Its a method that takes a lot of patience and a calm mind. Its certainly not for everyone

Well, they certainly don't obey every command I give them! My point is this: after seeing people use many of these methods on horses, these horses lose all respect for humans. They become pushy and disrespectful. I don't want a 1000 pound animal thinking he can be the boss of me, you know? Just not a safe environment.
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    06-26-2013, 12:23 PM
  #24
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlionesss    
Well, they certainly don't obey every command I give them! My point is this: after seeing people use many of these methods on horses, these horses lose all respect for humans. They become pushy and disrespectful. I don't want a 1000 pound animal thinking he can be the boss of me, you know? Just not a safe environment.
The point of these methods is to not have a pushy or disrespectful horse. The people you have seen must have not been utilizing it properly.
     
    06-26-2013, 01:04 PM
  #25
Super Moderator
She follows the same regime as people like Hempfling and Caroline Resnick and although they do what comes over as trick training their work also demands a huge amount of respect from their horses because without that what they do would be dangerous.
Don't be fooled by what looks to be all romantic and frilly - underneath is a firm agreement between horse and handler but its formed in a different way to the prey/predator approach that people like Clinton etc favour. When you watch Hempfling working with a dominant stallion he makes it very clear to the horse where his safe space is and that the horse needs to know that from the start
This sort of work isn't for everyone - you actually have to be a very dominant character to do it without coming over as a bully so works on the passive alpha mare idea
Working a horse like this doesn't mean that you can't also get on it and compete in whatever sport its best suited for.
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    06-26-2013, 08:26 PM
  #26
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackstar    
We all have different beliefs and I respect that. My horses mean more to me than something that just obeys my every command. And like I said, there is a lot more to the method than the taking territory part. Its one of those things you have to see in person to understand. Its a method that takes a lot of patience and a calm mind. Its certainly not for everyone
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackstar    
I didn't say anything about it being natural. These are just methods that focus on positive reinforcement. Obedience is certainly an aspect of the training its just done differently. The horses she trains are used in shows, so they definitely need to be obedient while performing in the arena.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackstar    
The point of these methods is to not have a pushy or disrespectful horse. The people you have seen must have not been utilizing it properly.
Let me just say, I feel you are contradicting yourself. Disrespect in of itself is as per Meriam-Webster

to show or express disrespect or contempt for : insult, dis

So if they are not supposed to "obey your every command" then why give them in the first place because to me if they don't do as you ask, that's disrespect. If they don't give you your space, that's disrespect.

Tell me how pushing a horse off of its meal is positive reinforcement? To me that is negative reinforcement. You add pressure, they move off and pressure is released.

Also I really do not like that you almost imply that you are different in how you view horses as something to boss around. To some it may be the thing they ride, to some the thing that they get their adrenaline kick from...

But to me, my horse is everything. He's a living breathing animal that deserves respect and I have a partnership with in and out of the saddle. He isn't there to do my bidding but I know he's truly happier when he gets consistent exercise, lots of turnout, and he feels happier when he has someone to look up to instead of having to make decisions himself.
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    06-26-2013, 11:56 PM
  #27
Weanling
Thanx for sharing but I'm not sold either if I had to wait for my mare to stop running around being spirited to go ride id not be doing a lot of riding lol. Just say'n
     
    06-27-2013, 12:16 AM
  #28
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel    
Let me just say, I feel you are contradicting yourself. Disrespect in of itself is as per Meriam-Webster

to show or express disrespect or contempt for : insult, dis

So if they are not supposed to "obey your every command" then why give them in the first place because to me if they don't do as you ask, that's disrespect. If they don't give you your space, that's disrespect.

Tell me how pushing a horse off of its meal is positive reinforcement? To me that is negative reinforcement. You add pressure, they move off and pressure is released.

Also I really do not like that you almost imply that you are different in how you view horses as something to boss around. To some it may be the thing they ride, to some the thing that they get their adrenaline kick from...

But to me, my horse is everything. He's a living breathing animal that deserves respect and I have a partnership with in and out of the saddle. He isn't there to do my bidding but I know he's truly happier when he gets consistent exercise, lots of turnout, and he feels happier when he has someone to look up to instead of having to make decisions himself.
Sorry for any misunderstandings but there is a lot more to it and I think everyone is just viewing it as negative because it is so different. The things I mentioned aren't even half of the program. I only put this out there for people that were looking for something different. If you are not interested just ignore it. Not once did I tell anyone that their way of training was wrong and I'm not saying I'm against the way other people train their horses or anything. If I was happy with traditional training methods I would do it. I found something that worked for me and I'm just sharing it.
     
    06-27-2013, 02:10 AM
  #29
Foal
I read that if she goes in the arena and the horse refuses to do her little handshake, that she leaves it alone for the rest of the day because it didn't "choose" not work that day. Sounds like a great way to get a spoiled rotten and pushy horse.

Out of all 7 of my horses, four would never choose to work, two would participate just so they could play, and one would look at me like I had just gone crazy.
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    06-27-2013, 08:58 AM
  #30
Super Moderator
I think maybe people should take on board what the OP is saying - she didn't post the thread to argue the rights or wrongs of this womans methods but to present it as something she's discovered and is working for her
If you don't like it and you're happy with what you do then honestly you should move on because you obviously have no need for new ideas but I find that even if I might not want to use them its still interesting to see what other people do
She gets paid a lot of money for the film training she does so I doubt she's worried if people like her or not - these companies can't afford to have badly behaved horses on set and around actors who very often don't know one end of a horse from another
Her methods are in the same way of thinking as others, allowing the horse to let of steam first so it can focus - seriously you think most horses will do this for hours? This is not the same as chasing a horse around a pen till its exhausted
Making the horse understand where your personal space is without being aggressive towards it while it gets its attitude out of its system
Knowing exactly where to place yourself to be safe without looking to be retreating
Having the courage to stand your ground - this is what the alpha horse will do and that is the bit that most people can't do because it takes more belief in yourself as the leader than most people have. If you show fear then you've lost
2 different clips of people using very similar approaches - I've included a recent video from David Lee Archer as his horses are ridden in the normal sense but he has that same ability to command respect without using any force other than to make the horse in this clip be where he wants it be
Hempfling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LsoDoC9X_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHBDfSXTnPk
Caroline Resnick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6SMYBuau28
And with the same horse - does not look disrespectful but very willing and wanting to please
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5pbKg54Uzw
David Lee Archer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpb9zNSAzt0
     

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