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The Extreme Alpha Challenge!

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        08-21-2010, 03:52 PM
      #41
    Foal
    I should add, he does know how. He just doesn't like the sensation and tries to take his foot back aggressively and slams it down.
         
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        08-21-2010, 03:57 PM
      #42
    Weanling
    My horse did the exact same thing. Once he starts moving it (because he swings it, right?), growl, and then if he puts it down then give a good hard smack on his belly(I said shoulder last time but belly is better) and yell/growl "no". Pick it up again, if he doesn't pick it up, growl(warning, I think you know what I mean by growl as deepen your voice sort of) and then if he still doesn't pick it up give a good hard smack on his belly. It would be better to to a session of ground work to show your dominance before you start with the hooves so he is aware that you are in charge.
         
        08-21-2010, 04:01 PM
      #43
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SPhorsemanship    
    My horse did the exact same thing. Once he starts moving it (because he swings it, right?), growl, and then if he puts it down then give a good hard smack on his belly(I said shoulder last time but belly is better) and yell/growl "no". Pick it up again, if he doesn't pick it up, growl(warning, I think you know what I mean by growl as deepen your voice sort of) and then if he still doesn't pick it up give a good hard smack on his belly. It would be better to to a session of ground work to show your dominance before you start with the hooves so he is aware that you are in charge.

    Yes, I know what you mean about pull and swing away. I do "growl" and will add the smack. I didn't smack bc I thought that I would get kicked actually! Lol Also, I do ground work first! You are right...about the importance of establishing (REMINDING) him. Seriously, what is it about dominance and picking up feet! You would have thought I was insulting him...!
         
        08-21-2010, 05:23 PM
      #44
    Weanling
    I will suggest, until you have dominance 100% and know you wont be kicked, you could use a lead rope and wrap it around his fetlock and then twist the rope so it is snug around his leg and then from farther away from his leg, you can hold his leg up. It is also easier to do it while holding the rope. If he holds it for 5 seconds, let him put it down and reward him, he also must know when he is being good.
         
        08-21-2010, 05:32 PM
      #45
    Started
    I disagree with growling & hitting around the issue of picking up hooves! He'll think you're a predator big time, & trusting you with his feet will be at zero!

    It's a TRUST issue--giving someone his feet is about the most trusting thing a horse can do! He's a prey animal; his feet are his survival!

    You build trust: start with trying to keep his feet on the ground! You make being around his legs & feet a pleasant experience: rub them, massage them, till he's not wary of that. THEN go to lifting each leg gently with a rope, then with your hands.
         
        08-21-2010, 05:50 PM
      #46
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Northern    
    It's a TRUST issue-
    From what has been told, this is no trust issue. Trust can only be formed when a horse has a proper relationship with a human. If the horse can go boss the person around, then why would he trust them to protect him if he is the stronger one? She has to show her dominance first and that is when the horse will trust her.

    I've been in the same situation, the horse isn't scared of having his feet up, he knows they are supposed to be up and he doesn't want to. Being with a horse isn't always babying them in a calm voice, most horses just won't take you seriously then. Fear could be involved depending on where the owner is asking for the feet, but letting the horse get scared and do what he wants would be worse than having the horse knowing what he is supposed to do.

    ADD: In some situations, as with my horse, they can be frightened and are still dominant so they want to leave and go to where they feel safe, so they will use their dominance. If they feel you are their leader, they won't need to go leave to where they feel safe.
         
        08-21-2010, 05:56 PM
      #47
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SPhorsemanship    
    My horse did the exact same thing. Once he starts moving it (because he swings it, right?), growl, and then if he puts it down then give a good hard smack on his belly(I said shoulder last time but belly is better) and yell/growl "no". Pick it up again, if he doesn't pick it up, growl(warning, I think you know what I mean by growl as deepen your voice sort of) and then if he still doesn't pick it up give a good hard smack on his belly. It would be better to to a session of ground work to show your dominance before you start with the hooves so he is aware that you are in charge.
    I'm afraid this approach may lead only to stronger resistance. While I have no problems growling or slapping to move a horse out of the personal space (because in some sense it's imitating of the alpha mare behavior), giving hoofs is something VERY different and VERY unnatural for the horse. I'm sorry, but for this particular problem gentleness, patience, and lots of praise for the tiny effort from the horse are the best way to go. Picking up the hoof with the rope, hold, and then let it go (preferably before he tries to drag it away) - I totally agree with that approach, but not hitting a horse in belly.
         
        08-21-2010, 06:00 PM
      #48
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
    - I totally agree with that approach, but not hitting a horse in belly.
    I think it depends on the situation, because if the horse knows what he should be doing, but doesn't want to, babying won't work.


    @the OP, what is the horse's experience with his hooves being picked up? Has he had a lot of it done or is it new to him? If it is new to him, then what the previous person said is the way to go, no getting mad at him for something he doesn't understand. With my horse, he had been picking up his hooves for three years and then he decided that he didn't like to pick up is left front hoof, and I knew that he knew better.
         
        08-21-2010, 06:21 PM
      #49
    Started
    OP has said that prior owners neglected to teach him to pick hooves up, & neglected regular hoof maintenance. Naturally, horse is going to need to learn to trust a human with his feet.
         
        08-21-2010, 06:27 PM
      #50
    Weanling
    Again @ OP, how much work have you done with him? Has he ever been good? In other words, is he just learning now the concept of picking up his feet because if this is the case then you want to teach him by pressure/release and rewarding him.
         

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