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Extremly aggressive horse

11K views 75 replies 28 participants last post by  RogueMare 
#1 ·
Hello. I guess lately I find myself dealing with a lot of problems :D. Well, here's the story.

Lately we received a new horse, he is a stallion, 4 or 5 years old, his name is Calin. He is a Shaghya Arab, almost or over 16 hh I guess, he is branded but the brand is not very visible, I guess because of his coloring. He is an abused horse, obviously. I don't know his past, I know only that he has bitten his owner from the belly and the owner received medical care. After that we were called to help the owner to catch his horse. He said initially that we should take the horse because he can't handle him. After that he said that he called us only to help him catching it. We ended by buying the horse with almost 600 $. They wanted to kill the horse so we saved him from sure death. The catching was a real fight. The horse was so aggressive that he wanted to attack all the people that tried to approach him. If you came close to him, at 100 m, he will attack you. And it was an open field. He tried to attack even the car, he took a bite from the car and wanted to crush it with his front hoofs.
We catch him with a lot of effort. He loads great but we needed two or three people to hold him.


Now we want to geld him and then work with it. We will be happy if we could bring him to a state were an experienced person could handle him. I'm aware that he will not be a docile horse ever. He saw that he could attack a human, or dominate him so it will be very hard to teach him otherwise.

I think that the horse was beaten up often and he think that every human want to beat him when he approach him. He is very scared of groups and children. If you go to him lonely he is more relaxed and you can touch him. But if he feels threatened he will turn his butt at you and try to hit you, or he will try to attack you with his front legs. We can't keep him in a stall because it will be almost impossible to catch him after, so we keep him in a standing stall.

I want to see your opinions. Do you think that his case is beyond hope? You think that he can be trained to not attack people and accept their presence? What will be the best way to approach him?
And I should mention that we can't send him to a trainer :lol:. We don't have horse trainers here in the proper sense. In my country this job doesn't exist. The so called horse trainers are the ones that can teach a horse some tricks or teach him to accept the saddle or harness. But even this things are done by the owner. We have two very experienced horsemen who will deal with the horse. This is the best that we can offer him. They said that the horse will be ok and they will manage to calm him. I trust them but I wanted a second opinion. I know that the ways of training are different and I want to hear all the opinions available.

I will put some videos with him to see his reactions.

DISCLAIMER: I know that the person that is dealing with the horse in this video doesn't do this in a responsible manner. But it was his choice to approach the horse and to expose himself to the danger. He worked with horses more than 15 years.

Horse Stable Mane Mare Snout


1. Here Calin is treated in a very calm and non aggressive manner. We try to make him tolerate human presence. We can't punish him if he tries to bite at this point because he will become to scared and defensive. We try only to make him understand that human presence is not bringing him any harm. If we will accomplish this we will try to demonstrate him that we are leaders and he must obey.


2. Here you can see how nervous the horse can be. He is biting the metal bars form his stall.
Calin 3 video by gothic-evans - Photobucket

3. Here the person is trying to put a bit in his mouths. We want to put a bridle on him for a better control. Because he stands only in the stall 'cause is very dangerous to bring him outside with only the halter. The horse got scared and tried to attack. The person was ok after the incidend.
Calin video 2 video by gothic-evans - Photobucket
 
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#2 ·
How very, very sad. He's quite beautiful, too.

My opinion: I'm very uncomfortable with the restraint. I know you have to be safe, but forcing the human presence doesn't seem to be working. I would actually stay away. After gelding, and doing his feet and teeth (under sedation) I wouldn't touch him at all, maybe not for weeks. I would put him in a pen large enough for a little exercise, and some shelter, and get him used to being fed. The human presence would become something less than evil. I would start touching him at a distance, with a shedding comb, something with a handle, just to brush flies off. He needs to want to come to the human. I would try to have just one handler. Other people should stay away. I think everything needs to be as consistent as possible.

When it was time for necessary handling, like farrier work, I would use a mild sedative. Horses can learn under mild sedation.

I would expect this to take a long, LONG time. I've heard of horses being rescued like this, and many never become more than pets. But you never know, especially with Arabs. Best of luck!
 
#3 ·
I wished you had a round pen to keep him there, or at least a small paddock, but we don't have such a thing. We have two paddock, one in front of the barn where we keep the young horses and the pasture ornaments and one for the sound horses, geldings and mares. We don't keep stallions, as soon as a stallion comes to us we gelded him asap. If he is a stallion we keep him tied. Now we have two. Your advice is really good anyway. I also think that forcing human contact to him doesn't really work, but we must try all the alternatives available. We really want to rehabilitate this horse. He had a hard life from what I see. He is scared and defensive all the time and I'm really sure that he doesn't do it with no reason.
Thank you.
 
#4 ·
he is gorgous he looks to have some draft in him. what seems to work is not forcing the prescence but def using food to get him to tolerate you and then want to b with u
 
#7 ·
Just watching that video scares the crap out of me. If you decide to push forward with recovery, expect it to be a long and drawn out process that could take years. Even then, I doubt you will ever be able to fully trust him. Gelding him should help. Im sorry to say that if he were my horse, I would try my best and if there wasn't progress in the first few months...he would have to go. Does he only attack when provoked? Was he ever handled?
 
#10 ·
I'm sure that he was handled. I guess that he was stolen from somebody. In my country the horses are branded only if they come from stud farms. Calin was probably stolen from such a farm by the gypsies and sold him after. I guess that he was dominant and hard to handle so they beat him up in order to calm him down. For sure he was sold numerous times, drugged in order to be sold and so on. This owner purchased him and after 2 days the horse bitten him and then escaped. When we first caught the horse they all came, 5-6 men with forks, metal bars and so on and wanted to kill the horse in front of us. We let the horse escape in order to save his life and then talked with the people and offered us to buy him from them. So we purchased him and after that we tried to catch him again.

So you can imagine how was his life before we purchased him. Is no surprise that he is so aggressive, he has such a strong personality and it's such a dominant horse.

We know that will be a long way until he will be ok. We don't expect him to be an angel. As I said we only hope that he will calm down in order to be handled safely only by an experienced horseman. We won't sell him, he will become a permanent resident to our rescue center. It's the only solution for now. Maybe he will cooperate with us in time, and maybe he will recover more than we expect. Only time will tell.
 
#9 ·
Is there any way you could build him an enclosure to walk around in, instead of being tied. That alone sounds frustrating for him, and no way to expend all his excess energy.
However sometimes we all have the best intentions and need to work with what we got.
I would use a sedative to work with the necessary (feet trimming and getting him gelded). Also I would leave him alone and not try touching him just yet. I would have him in an area that has people around alot but noone paying too much attention to him. The idea being him accepting people in his space and them not doing anything with him. I would also have someone (a person) just sitting in the stall next to him (out of harms way). Again this way he gets used to the smell and sight of people without them touching him or getting in his space. Hopefully he will get the idea that people around doesn't have to equal him needing to be aggressive or protective of himself.
I also agree with Beling - be consistent, feeding at the same time, handling him on the same side, having his food and water at the same location, ect.. Having consistency and a routine may help him feel more stable and safe and his environment then is predictable.
Could you also have a very calm horse or some other animal in a stall close to him for the animal confort and that way he's never alone?
When it comes to touching him I would use a glove tied to a stick or whip (or something to act as an extesion of your arm). That way he can bite and kick that instead of someone possibly getting hurt. I would only do the touching for very short periods of time (5 min a day a couple of times a day or something), and then build on that.
Also, in my opinion, restraining the horse to accept human touch seems a little unnecessary. I think if you work within his comfort zone (using some of the ideas I previously suggested) you will end up with more positive results.
Best of luck
 
#13 ·
Thank you for your advice. I really like your approach and I think that this will be a way to go. I will try this. The idea with people standing next to him without doing him a thing is great for the moment. Maybe in this way he'll understand that people are not there to beat him up. Unfortunately he can't stand to have a horse near him. He tries his best to kill the other horse, even if the horse is calm and non aggressive. Guess that he's not very used with other horses, or he's very dominant. We have a lot of mares in heat now so maybe he feels their smell and he's very protective with his territory.
 
#11 ·
Well, you certainly have a time on your hands. I've worked with the trainer in the below videos. He does a lot of work rehabing rescue horses out here, and I've seen some amazing changes in horses through his work. He has over 200 videos on YouTube, some of which may really help you. The videos about Hawk the Mustang are about getting an untouched mustang to allow touch and ultimately to be rideable. Good luck!

YouTube - david12000000's Channel

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=david12000000#p/u/52/AkoWmQc-Z40
 
#12 ·
As I said, your heart is in the right place. I understand that conditions in Romania may not be the same as in Canada.

If your bound a determined to try then get that fellow to stop bugging him and forget putting a bit in his mouth! Just pile the food in front of him and talk to him. Judging by those video's his stress levels are pretty high. Get a chair and sit where you're safe and talk..... read to him.... anything so that he gets it into his head your not going to cause him anymore stress. Don't force yourself on him until he's gelded.

My first concern is that once he's gelded he is not going to be able to move around and that in itself could lead to problems with his recovery. Swelling is often relieved by exercise, how are you going to deal with that?
 
#17 ·
G and K's Mom : Well, we tried to put a bit in his mouth in order to get him used to it. He is definitely used to a bit and with driving, but I don't understand how someone was able to put a bridle on him in a safe way. If he is bridled you have more control over him, a bridle and two people holding him. If he will be gelded that will be the only solution for him to do his daily exercises. We hope that after the gelding operation he will calm down because for now he is aggressive and stressed up because of the mares. I know that even after he will be gelded he will still be aggressive but we hope that not as much as today.

CanyonCowboy : Oh, I love David Archer. You are very very lucky to had the opportunity to work with him. He has such a great method of working with the horses. I think that the case with Pepper the aggressive horse is similar to Calin's case. And this gives me hope. To bad that we don't have access to such a trainer out here.
 
#19 ·
My hats off to you and that young man! I can tell you that The current situation is extremely dangerous for both the human and the horse.The odds are pretty high that one or both will get hurt sooner or later.

If you look at the risks involved and the extremely small chance that this horse will change I don't think the possibility for a good outcome is there.

Gelding him probably won't make much difference in his way of thinking and frankly speaking I don't see the skills required to change things in the young man. He is surely brave and his heart is in the right place but it comes down to experience and expertise and for sure that horse needs a handful of both.

Think about this and make sure that your time, resources and funds are being well spent with this guy. I am sure all of the above are limited and perhaps allocating them to some other horse who has a better chance of adapting to the human world would be more prudent.

If you choose to stay wth it good luck and God bless.
 
#20 ·
5cuetrain : I understand your opinion here, and to some extent I agree with you. The horse is very very dangerous and almost impossible to handle. I don't even want to imagine how it will be if the horse will escape. For this reason we tie the horse with two halters and two lead ropes. The possibility of him being in danger and couldn't escape is smaller than the possibility of him escaping and injure or even kill someone.

We have an experienced horsemen available, I really trust him to train this horse. The person that is dealing with the horse in the video has a lot of experience but is still young and to brave for his own safety. But he and the other person that I'm talking about are the only one that can handle the horse. With a lot of risks that's true but it's their choice to do so.

And if you saw some of my posts you will understand that the rescue center is notorious for dealing with hopeless chases. We have a management (administration) that want to be heroic all the time. They are against euthanasia (they agree with it only in limit cases) and they want to give a chance to all the horses. It doesn't depends if their chances of survival or rehabilitation are very limited. And I can't fight with them. I only try to help with what I can, considering that I'm not very experienced myself. And I always try to find second opinions.
 
#21 ·
Kudos for taking him on.

If this were my rescue horse, the first thing I would do would be to geld him.

Do you have rope halters or are they the flat halters?

I think he has been spoiled and allowed to get away with bloody murder. He has learned that if he throws a fit, he gets his way. He doesn't want a bit? Thats ok, kick and squeal and throw a fit, the bit goes away. The thing I would do would be to push his tolerance level to the edge, then back off, over and over again.

Lets say you are brushing him. If he gets antsy, stop. Wait a moment, then start again. Keep doing this over and over. Finally it will get to the point where he won't fuss because he will realize you are just going to keep brushing him, and the more he fusses the longer it will take.

It make take a year or 2, but I bet he will turn out good.
 
#26 ·
Lets say you are brushing him. If he gets antsy, stop. Wait a moment, then start again.
That's how you train a horse to misbehave. You should brush until he relaxes or at least stands still then quit.
 
#22 ·
Keeping him tied for a while won't hurt him. I wouldn't spend alot of time forcing myself on him and baby talking to him but it probably won't do much harm either. I would have him gelded and then while he was sore and stiff I would handle him extensively. Making him move will help with the swelling as well as getting him a little gentler. He doesn't seem like too bad of a horse to me. He should come around eventually.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I'm with Kevin on this (I know, wow, actually agreeing). I don't think the horse is beyond help by a long shot. I think you might eventually get a pretty nice horse out of it in the end. I disagree with those saying he needs a pen etc, keeping him tied I think is a good thing right now. Get him gelded, and get in there to work with him a lot while he is recovering. He'll need walked while he is recovering and this is the time to get in there, while he doesn't have a whole lot of fight due to his surgery. Make sure all his food is hand fed to him. (By this I DON'T literally mean by hand - I mean, don't throw piles of hay in there and keep away. Hold the buckets, hold the feeders and offer to him. Get him used to the idea that good things come from people too. ) Get one person or two people only - preferably your top two most experienced horsemen, to handle him and keep everyone else backed off for a while while the horse is still so reactive. Good luck with him and please keep us posted!
 
#23 ·
I have seen plenty of stallions that act like that that have never had a hand raised to them. I manage a rescue barn and try to keep everyone's heads on their shoulders instead of in the clouds. Everyone assumes that if a horse is defensive or aggressive, it was because they were mistreated, everyone screams abuse. Neglect I see often, ignorance I see even more often, deliberate abuse through physical actions by a human I can honestly say I see rarely, and it is most commonly through show and track horses. I have also seen plenty of well taken care of show and track horses, but sometimes the drive to compete causes people to do inhumane things.

The best case scenario would be to geld this guy and turn him out, let him figure out how to be a horse. He obviously has no social skills. In the situation that you are in, I agree with Kevin, cut him and leave him alone. Don't give him any reasons to be aggressive, don't react with anything he does, wait until he is actually looking for you. You have to turn the tables on him. I know from experience that the worst thing for the energy of a rescue barn is the feeling of sympathy. The last thing a rescue horse needs is a weak energy from a human, they need someone to say "get over it, you are safe now" and show them leadership and boundaries. For right now, I would say don't give him the time of day besides the necessities that he needs. Sitting and reading a book in his presence is good, because it will put you there as something that he has to get used to and can't shake. Let the place go on about its routine and let him figure out that he is nothing special, just a horse. When he starts getting curious, then just maybe you will give him the luxary of interacting with you.

On another note, I have seen good hearted people take on more that their capablities could handle with horses with both behavioral and physical issues, my answer to this is that there are worse things in life than death.
 
#24 ·
I've had much worse horses here that turned out fine. He wasn't hell bent on murder, he was just trying to get the guy away from him. He stopped when the guy stopped.

I had a TB gelding here that was insane. I am serious- insane. He would beat himself to bits if he was stalled, flinging himself against walls. He broke 2x6 planks with his kicking. If you went near him he would rear and paw and strike out, or if he wasn't close enough he'd run straight at you and attempt to run you over, teeth bared.

Previously to me taking him, he had been beaten in the head with a 2x4 when he refused to pick up his foot.

After 2 months of this we had him put to sleep. The vet asked if he could necropsy his brain to see if there was something organic about his behavior- and we agreed. Turns out when he was beaten, he had a skull fracture and bone chips were broken off and went into his brain. Vet said he would have never recovered.
 
#25 ·
Flitterbug, I wholeheartedly agree. Too many times people misinterpret behavior problems for the symptoms of abuse- most "abused" horses at our rescue have been allowed to get away with bloody murder, and are just testing their limits.

We can't save them all. I can try, but I'll go insane myself. I can only choose a certain few at a time, and do the best I can with them.
 
#27 ·
draftrider : We don't have rope halters over here. They are rare to see, he has a flat halter on him and one rope halter but flat also (is made from a lot of ropes that are put togheter to form a flat halter). I know that rope halter will be better for him because it gives you more control. I will try to buy one of this for him. Thank you for the suggestion. And thank you also for the advice. I'm glad to hear that he has some chances to become more easy to handle.

kevinshorses : thank you a lot Kevin. Today we didn't interact with it all day. We interacted with him only to feed him and water him. He is very very calm in the stall, he doesn't have a problem with being tied. So I guess that he will not be stressed because of this. He will not have a way to spend his energy but for the moment we keep him only on hay. No grain or supplements. We will made an appointment those days to the doctor to come and geld him. This is the only alternative that we have to calm him down, and after this we will work him and train him as you mentioned.

I'm glad that you don't think that he is extremely aggressive. That's a great thing. I have never seen an horse so aggressive but I don't have a lot of experience with horses. I have only 2 years of working with horses so I didn't saw a lot in 2 years.

Thank you for the support and advice, really appreciate it.

draftrider : yes, Calin is not aggressive without a reason. He is aggressive only when he feels intimidated. If you go lonely to him, and treat him in a calm manner he doesn't show many signs of aggression. He only tries to bite you if you want to touch him. But if you keep a distance he doesn't really care about you being there. But if you try to punish him for a bad behavior he freaks out and tries to kill you. Because of this thing we don't know how to handle him.

But I'm really glad that he does have hope.
And the case of the TB gelding is really interesting. I'm sorry for that poor horse. I didn't knew that they can go insane. It's really great that you chose the right decision.

FlitterBug : I agree that there can be some stallions with this kind of behavior. But this one was really abused. I know that this is not an excuse to let them escape with that behavior. We really try to not do this. But in the same time we try to not trigger the fear that this horse has for a lot of things. He freaks out when he sees a stick, a crop or a group of people. So we will try to teach him that he doesn't have to be afraid anymore. After he will settle up we will begin his training. Right now when you punish him for something like biting he freaks out and tries to escape from you. That's the problem. We don't know how to put him to respect, how to show him that we don't tolerate his behavior without him freaking out and being scared and very defensive.


Thank you all for the support. I will keep you updated when he will have an improvement.
 
#30 ·
He is aggressive only when he feels intimidated. If you go lonely to him, and treat him in a calm manner he doesn't show many signs of aggression. He only tries to bite you if you want to touch him. But if you keep a distance he doesn't really care about you being there. But if you try to punish him for a bad behavior he freaks out and tries to kill you. .
To me this sounds very promising.
You have something to work with - you can be near him and he doesn't lash out - you could build on this (in time).
I still think you should leave him alone for a couple of days, just doing your regular daily routine around him. Letting him get used to his new environment, people and noises. And also having someone near him but not doing anything to him. After a couple of days you could use the technique I suggested before - using a stick or something as an extension of your arm, and getting him used to just being touched. Doing everything slowly and calmly. I don't think I would push him too much or too long, keep it short and simple, then leave him alone.

Good luck, and I think you have a good chance of bringing him around.
 
#28 ·
he is so handsome but he is aggressive, i think just because he is scared and he is a stallion so that is his way of dealing with it. i dont think he is a lost cause though, he needs to gain human trust again, he looks in poor condition and maybe associates that with humans.
 
#31 ·
As I read this story I feel empathy for the animal and strong dislike for those that have made him behave in this fashion. This horse doesn’t just fear humans he hates them and perhaps for good reason. I watched the videos and saw a nice looking but powerful horse who has spirit and no doubt intelligence. I realized that in the UK there would have to be something really special about him otherwise we would probably have put him down as being too dangerous for our society. At the very least he would have been gelded immediately.

The human has got to come to trust the animal not to try to injure the human - which the horse so easily can do and likewise, the horse has got to trust that the human not to kill him - which he knows by instinct that the human can so easily do. This horse will never ever forget his past ill treatment from other humans and for that reason alone he will never ever be completely trustworthy.

Whilst mulling over the problems presented by this horse, I came to think that maybe an attempt by one organisation to re-educate such a horse might become an example for fellow countrymen to follow. I have been led to believe that Bulgaria has many such hurdles to climb.
Maybe I can add a few suggestions to those already expressed by the other contributors.

If the animal were delivered to me in the UK, then I’d create for the horse a one acre secure grassy paddock in which I would build a field shelter. It would become his home and his prison too, but he would be safe. The horse would never ever be chastised in this arena, it would be his domaine. The surface would be kept clear of dung. Over the months he’d be fed, handled and schooled in this small paddock. In this environment he’d have shelter, security, food & freedom from fear or stress. Carefully managed with electric fencing, a horse can survive through the year on one acre of grassland.

Each day, as part of a regular routine, I’d pad myself up with protective gear and I would try to persuade him to allow me willingly into his domain. I’d use food, routine and familiarity to achieve this aim. The horse would be fed twice daily throughout the year with chaff, fruit, vegetables and oil. He’d have access to a salt block and a vitamin lick. I’d look for something he desired enough to tolerate my presence and then I’d use it as a bribe. The horse would be free to hear the birds and to breathe fresh air and to listen to the sounds of the countryside. He would be free to canter. I’d affix a lightweight rope halter but otherwise he’d run loose in the field and it would be my task to catch him to affix a lead rope - an act to which he must eventually come to willingly submit. That might take time but eventual submission would indicate some level of trust. Until he came to trust me, I could neither do, nor attempt to do, anything with him. He would come to recognise me by sight, sound, smell, touch, footfall and routine.
I’d forget bits, I’d use a rope training halter which worked on the nose and the poll. I’d forget saddles - there is no way I would even expect to ride this creature for a couple of years. Bits and saddles are things maybe for the future. Horse tack can be bought over the Internet from ‘Rideaway’ for posting to Bulgaria.
My immediate aim would be to get him to allow me to touch him - first with my hands and then with hand and brush, then eventually to fit a halter with a lead rope attached. In return I would have to trust him enough to put myself within touching, kicking or biting distance. Undoubtedly I would have to think he is worth the effort and the significant risk to my personal well being. I’d need to like the horse so as to be able to forgive him.

The only discipline available to me would be my voice, plus gestures, and maybe a pointed finger. A lunging whip and a riding crop I might from time to time use but never with the idea of actually touching the horse. The horse would have to learn the boundary lines of acceptable and unacceptable behaviour but any physical chastisement or undue restraint would be out of the question. It would be counter productive. Progress might well be slow but I would build slowly on slow progress. Only persistent patient perseverance works on a mentally damaged horse.

Sadly from your postings, I read that you have not got the acre of grassland. Without it I cannot see how you can cope. To tie up such a horse constantly in a stall would probably introduce other problems in such a horse but neither can you let it run with the other horses. The Spaniards do confine their breeding Andalusian stallions but they have not been mistreated.
I wish you luck - it seems to be a daunting prospect you are attempting.

Have you thought of approaching the International Horse Protection & Welfare Societies for funding?
 
#33 ·
That horse is beautiful, its such a shame that he has issues with people. To start off with, you need to find out if he has a preference with male or female. For example i have an arabian, and he like women more then men. Haveing strapped to the metal pole is not good, he feels like he is going to be hurt, because he is forced to stand there. Like the women earlier said, put him in a round pin, with some sort of shelter. One person, and i mean only one person, needs to come and feed him, and eventually try and brush him off or something. Your stallion does not trust humans, and not just any human will probably ever be able to ride him, the main thing this horse needs is trust, he will not develop any trust for that man in the video. I recommend that a women try and do what i said, women are more sensetive, and horses can feel that kind of stuff.
 
#34 ·
I know that this is your first post and I don't want you to feel like I'm picking on you but this is not good advice. Horses don't care about male and female as much as they care about how you handle them. Tying him is also not going to bother him much after a while and will probably be good for him in the long run. Before you develop trust you must develop respect and you can't get that without handling the horse consistently. I don't know how many peope have brought me horses to train that "prefer women". What the horse prefers is someone that requires very little from them regardless of gender. Unfortunately for the horse what it prefers is of little consequence to me until the horse is safe to handle and ride and even then only in the context of accomplishing what I need to. I set the horse up to succeed and then get out of the way but the horse must perform.
 
#35 ·
Geld him yesterday, if that's what it takes to give him a life as a horse.

He is a very typical, non-socialized stallion. I've seen a few of them, these are horses who were used only for stud. None that I know have ever been beaten, but nor have they been given a chance to every just be a horse.

A stallion is a horse first, and stallion second. He has the same needs, physical and mental as any other horse, the difference is he also has testosterone.

The second thing I'd change is the person working with him. Either this guy needs to learn how to change his body language, or you need to start with someone who this horse hasn't scared.

In each video clip the human is inviting the horse into his space, simply by the way he's holding his body and stepping away from the horse (not that I blame him much at this point...but still, it IS a factor in this horse's behavior). If the human won't be the leader the horse needs, the horse WILL take over that position, and it WILL become dangerous. The people working with this horse will need to understand they HAVE to be strong (mentally), confident and make themselves big.

Stallions will submit to larger, faster, stronger stallions - this means a human handling a stallion needs to convince him that they are all of those things. If they can't do that, they need to stay away.

This is not a mean horse. Contrary to the way he's behaving at the moment, he's actually only behaving as is natural for him. Given a different, fearless way of handling him, and some space to not feel trapped, he will come around very quickly.

In order for that to happen though, he needs the ability to move around. It sounds like, for you guys, that means sedating him, gelding him and getting it done soon.

As far as I'm concerned there's no 'time limit' on how much time should or should not be spent with a horse like this, it's ALL about the kind of handling you do.

Before you put a bit in this horse's mouth, he needs to be able to trust. I've worked with worse horses without a bit in their mouth - a 22' line, rope halter, and a pair of good gloves were all that were needed.

Check out Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling on YouTube for an alternative way of handling aggressive horses, he has a few case studies there to look at. One is a Breton stallion which hasn't been out of his stall for years due to his unmanagable temperment.
 
#36 ·
I have often wondered how a horse tells that a male is a man and a women is a female.

I assume that most of our readers do not go out and handle their horses stark naked.

But even if they did how could a horse tell?

Now I started to write the answer to this question and then I decided I could not put the words together polite enough for this forum - so I erased what I was thinking but had not yet written. Young innocent souls are safe.

But come on ladies tell me how my mare knows I am a male and I have never taken a shower with her, even when I was hosing her down.
 
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